"Upstream" with Erik Torenberg

Erik sits down with Sam Harris, an author, neuroscientist, podcaster, and philosopher. Sam is known for having crucial conversations about morality, religion, rationality, and the pursuit of truth. This discussion covers Sam’s concerns about populism, polarization, and inequality. We also discuss why Sam is hated by the left and the right. LINKS: Sam's work: https://www.samharris.org/ Sam's podcast Making Sense: https://www.samharris.org/podcasts RECOMMENDED SHOWS: Moment of Zen: https://link.chtbl.com/moz The Cognitive Revolution: https://link.chtbl.com/TheCognitiveRevolution TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Episode preview (02:00) Sam’s life’s work (04:00) Sam’s concerns around the marketplace of ideas (11:25) Sam is a mistake theorist (15:45) Sponsors: Secureframe | Mercury | MarketerHire (20:00) Why Sam is hated by both the left and the right (22:30) Fundamental conflict between the left and the right (31:00) Navigating group disparities (41:00) Individual rights vs group rights (47:00) Is wokeness the new religion? (51:00) Sam’s critique of populism (58:00) Sam’s defenses of experts/institutions (1:11:00) The right doesn’t sufficiently appreciate luck (1:16:45) Polarization is better than a one-party state (1:21:00) Global governance TWITTER: Erik’s Twitter: @eriktorenberg Upstream : @upstream__pod Making Sense Podcast: @MakingSenseHQ Please support our sponsors: Secureframe | Mercury | MarketerHire - Secureframe: https://secureframe.com/ Secureframe is the leading all-in-one platform for security and privacy compliance. Get SOC-2 audit ready in weeks, not months. I believe in Secureframe so much that I invested in it, and I recommend it to all my portfolio companies. Sign up for a free demo and mention UPSTREAM during your demo to get 20% off your first year. Secureframe has just released Secureframe Trust, a new product that lets you showcase your organization's security posture to build customer trust. - Mercury: https://mercury.com/ Now more than ever, startup founders need a safe place to put their cash. Mercury protects your money and also provides the streamlined user experience that great founders expect through partner banks and their sweep networks. Mercury offers up to $5 million in FDIC insurance, which is 20 times the per-bank limit. They also make it easy to invest any cash above the FDIC-insured amount in a money market fund, a hundred thousand startups trust Mercury with their finances. I've been a happy Mercury customer and have found their team incredibly helpful and responsive. Mercury is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services are provided by Choice Financial Group and involve bank and trust members FDIC. - MarketerHire: https://marketerhire.com/upstream MarketerHire is one of my favorite resources for growing startups looking to hire marketers. With 1000s of pre-vetted marketers across a dozen roles, whether you need help with growth, marketing, SEO, lifecycle, content, or any other aspect of growth marketing strategy. Over 5,000 companies already use MarketerHire to hire expert marketers on demand, ranging from top venture-backed startups to the most well-known Fortune 500s. Go to marketerhire.com/upstream and use code UPSTREAM to get your $1,000 credit for your first hire. Thank you Graham Bessellieu for production.

We're excited to introduce Upstream listeners to Moment of Zen, a weekly podcast hosted by Erik Torenberg, Dan Romero, Antonio Garcia Martinez, and additional guests. This episode features special guest Mike Solana, Editor in Chief of Pirate Wires (https://www.piratewires.com/) in conversation with Erik and Dan. They cover the recent AI congressional hearings, The Culture War's evolution, Twitter under Elon, and much more. Episode 10 of Upstream with Erik Torenberg will be released on 5/28/23. LISTEN AND SUBSCRIBE TO "MOMENT OF ZEN" Podcast: https://link.chtbl.com/moz YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@MomentofZenPodcast MoZ's first episode from Dec '22 featured Marc Andreessen and other guests who have appeared on MoZ include: Balaji Srinivasan, Katherine Boyle, Amjad Masad, Nic Carter, Noah Smith, Michelle Tandler, Byrne Hobart, and more. LINKS: Mike Solana's Interview with Grimes (https://www.piratewires.com/p/base-reality-an-interview-with-grimes-6b3) Dan's sci-fi book recommendation: Delta-v by Daniel Suarez TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Introduction to this episode of Moment of Zen (00:48) On what Mike Solana would say to Congress about AI (08:00) Contrasting Zuck, Brian Armstrong, and Sam Altman’s approach to regulation (14:20) Sponsor: Secureframe (16:30) AI doomerism is just marketing for big AI (26:00) Elon’s wins and losses so far as Twitter CEO (38:00) Taylor Lorenz Mythology (40:00) Twitter’s regime change // How the tables have turned. Muahahaha. (44:05) What we’d do if we were Twitter CEO (50:00) Evolution of polarization (58:00) Silver lining of polarization (1:07:00) Distinguishing Elon’s antics from his philosophy (1:14:00) Trump feels more familiar in 2023 vs. 2016 (1:18:00) The right is adopting woke tactics (1:24:00) Social media and depression follow up (1:28:00) Is half of Gen Z non-straight? (1:32:00) Ellen Pao (1:34:30) Is Pirate Wires conservative media? (No) TWITTER: @MOZ_Podcast @micsolana (Mike) @piratewires @eriktorenberg (Erik) @dwr (Dan) @antoniogm (Antonio) Please support our sponsors: Secureframe https://secureframe.com/ Secureframe is the leading all-in-one platform for security and privacy compliance. Get SOC-2 audit ready in weeks, not months. I believe in Secureframe so much that I invested in it, and I recommend it to all my portfolio companies. Sign up for a free demo and mention UPSTREAM during your demo to get 20% off your first year. Secureframe has just released Secureframe Trust, a new product that lets you showcase your organization's security posture to build customer trust.

Erik sits down with independent analyst Benedict Evans for a wide-ranging discussion of predictions and frameworks spanning the vast realm of technology - where we’ve been, where we’re going, and what really matters. AI scout and podcast host Nathan Labenz (The Cognitive Revolution) joins for the last 20 minutes to deepen the discussion on AI. RECOMMENDED SHOWS: The Cognitive Revolution: https://link.chtbl.com/TheCognitiveRevolution Moment of Zen: https://link.chtbl.com/moz TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Episode preview (01:47) Benedict’s annual presentations and frameworks for “the next thing” (07:00) Are Netflix and Tesla tech companies? (12:59) Why hasn’t software ‘eaten’ certain industries and fields? (14:47) Sponsors: Secureframe | Mercury | MarketerHire (18:30) Preconditions for predictions (24:30) Overhyped/underappreciated aspects of Web3 and Crypto (28:25) Blockchain, and Benedict’s prediction for decentralization (34:00) Building the next Twitter (43:33) Predictions for metaverse and VR (49:52) Consumer surplus and business models (51:37) AI predictions (55:22) Opportunities in AI (1:01:58) Bundling and unbundling lens on AI (1:06:35) Future of jobs (1:15:00) Predictions for Benedict’s next presentation LINKS: Presentations: https://www.ben-evans.com/ Book recommendation: Reminiscences of a Stock Operator by Edwin Lefèvre https://www.amazon.com/Reminiscences-Stock-Operator-Edwin-Lef%25C3%25A8vre/dp/0471059684#:~:text=First%2520published%2520in%25201923%252C%2520Reminiscences%2520of%2520a%2520Stock%2520Operator%2520is,recommended%2520investment%2520book%2520ever%2520written?&_encoding=UTF8&tag=turpentine-20&linkCode=ur2&linkId=19fa33d3202c6df062385946b9ec3743&camp=1789&creative=9325 TWITTER: Erik’s Twitter: @eriktorenberg Benedict’s Twitter:@benedictevans Please support our sponsors: Secureframe | Mercury | MarketerHire - Secureframe: https://secureframe.com/ Secureframe is the leading all-in-one platform for security and privacy compliance. Get SOC-2 audit ready in weeks, not months. I believe in Secureframe so much that I invested in it, and I recommend it to all my portfolio companies. Sign up for a free demo and mention UPSTREAM during your demo to get 20% off your first year. Secureframe has just released Secureframe Trust, a new product that lets you showcase your organization's security posture to build customer trust. - Mercury: https://mercury.com/ Now more than ever, startup founders need a safe place to put their cash. Mercury protects your money and also provides the streamlined user experience that great founders expect through partner banks and their sweep networks. Mercury offers up to $5 million in FDIC insurance, which is 20 times the per-bank limit. They also make it easy to invest any cash above the FDIC-insured amount in a money market fund, a hundred thousand startups trust Mercury with their finances. I've been a happy Mercury customer and have found their team incredibly helpful and responsive. Mercury is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services are provided by Choice Financial Group and involve bank and trust members FDIC. - MarketerHire: https://marketerhire.com/upstream MarketerHire is one of my favorite resources for growing startups looking to hire marketers. With 1000s of pre-vetted marketers across a dozen roles, whether you need help with growth, marketing, SEO, lifecycle, content, or any other aspect of growth marketing strategy. Over 5,000 companies already use MarketerHire to hire expert marketers on demand, ranging from top venture-backed startups to the most well-known Fortune 500s. Go to marketerhire.com/upstream and use code UPSTREAM to get your $1,000 credit for your first hire.

Erik sits down with political scientist Samo Burja ( @SamoBurja  ) who founded Bismarck Analysis, a consulting firm that analyzes institutions (ranging from governments to companies). Samo is one of the most interesting and wide-ranging thinkers today. In this episode, they discuss the current state and future state of America, China, Russia, Ukraine, energy, the US dollar, AI, and more. RECOMMENDED SHOWS: Moment of Zen: https://link.chtbl.com/moz The Cognitive Revolution: https://link.chtbl.com/TheCognitiveRevolution TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Episode preview (02:05) Who’s right: Balaji, Zeihan, or Olson? (06:18) Why China’s prospects aren’t as bad as Zeihan thinks (08:46) What have we learned one year out after Ukraine? (12:12) Future of The U.S. dollar (14:19) Sponsors: Mercury | Secureframe | MarketerHire (16:03) Balaji’s Bet (16:42) Future of America (21:06) Why Brazil hasn’t panned out (25:34) Is AI communist and crypto libertarian (28:37) Evolution of elites (32:40) Comparing Elon and SBF (35:12) Economics of automation and AI (40:28) How intellectual culture has changed (42:39) America exporting Western values (46:42) America and China converging (49:00) Startup cities vs incumbents (51:54) Samo’s consultancy (54:35) Samo’s upcoming research interests TWITTER: Erik’s Twitter: @eriktorenberg Samo's Twitter: @samoburja Please support our sponsors: Secureframe | Mercury | MarketerHire - Secureframe: https://secureframe.com/ Secureframe is the leading all-in-one platform for security and privacy compliance. Get SOC-2 audit ready in weeks, not months. I believe in Secureframe so much that I invested in it, and I recommend it to all my portfolio companies. Sign up for a free demo and mention UPSTREAM during your demo to get 20% off your first year. Secureframe has just released Secureframe Trust, a new product that lets you showcase your organization's security posture to build customer trust. - Mercury: https://mercury.com/ Now more than ever, startup founders need a safe place to put their cash. Mercury protects your money and also provides the streamlined user experience that great founders expect through partner banks and their sweep networks. Mercury offers up to $5 million in FDIC insurance, which is 20 times the per-bank limit. They also make it easy to invest any cash above the FDIC-insured amount in a money market fund, a hundred thousand startups trust Mercury with their finances. I've been a happy Mercury customer and have found their team incredibly helpful and responsive. Mercury is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services are provided by Choice Financial Group and involve bank and trust members FDIC. - MarketerHire: https://marketerhire.com/upstream MarketerHire is one of my favorite resources for growing startups looking to hire marketers. With 1000s of pre-vetted marketers across a dozen roles, whether you need help with growth, marketing, SEO, lifecycle, content, or any other aspect of growth marketing strategy. Over 5,000 companies already use MarketerHire to hire expert marketers on demand, ranging from top venture-backed startups to the most well-known Fortune 500s. Go to marketerhire.com/upstream and use code UPSTREAM to get your $1,000 credit for your first hire.

Andrew Yang is a former founder of Venture for America and former candidate for president of the United States. Yang is now focused on introducing a third party to our two-party political system. He sits down with Erik to talk about why politics is broken and how to fix it, the current political landscape gearing into the 2024 elections, an inside look as to what's actually involved in running for president, and reflections on what he would've done differently. We also talk about universal basic income, fixing California, and fixing media polarization. RECOMMENDED PODCASTS: Moment of Zen: https://link.chtbl.com/moz The Cognitive Revolution: https://link.chtbl.com/TheCognitiveRevolution TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Preview of the episode (02:46) When Andrew Yang realized the two-party system is broken (07:37) How third parties can cure the system (10:09) What’s the relationship between money and laws changing? (15:10) How the “the last election” plays out (15:58) Sponsors: Secureframe | Mercury | MarketerHire (17:54) Andrew Yang’s prediction for 2024 (19:58) Introducing competition to one party state California (24:26) Institutionalization of the DNC (26:58) Manufacturing the “presidential quality” (28:12) Andrew Yang on Vivek Ramaswamy (32:05) Self-interest in politics (33:52) How to get more talented people to be in politics (36:39) Andrew Yang’s reflections on his candidacy (39:07) What it’s like to run for president (45:10) Trumpism is not over (46:10) Future of disunity? (48:39) Media environment (51:32) UBI and AI SOCIAL LINKS: Erik’s Twitter: @eriktorenberg Andrew’s Twitter: @andrewyang Forward Party Twitter: @fwd_Party Podcast Twitter: @Upstream__Pod Erik’s Substack: eriktorenberg.substack.com Please support our sponsors: Secureframe | Mercury | MarketerHire - Secureframe: https://secureframe.com/ Secureframe is the leading all-in-one platform for security and privacy compliance. Get SOC-2 audit ready in weeks, not months. I believe in Secureframe so much that I invested in it, and I recommend it to all my portfolio companies. Sign up for a free demo and mention UPSTREAM during your demo to get 20% off your first year. - Mercury: https://mercury.com/ Now more than ever, startup founders need a safe place to put their cash. Mercury protects your money and also provides the streamlined user experience that great founders expect through partner banks and their sweep networks.Mercury offers up to $5 million in FDIC insurance, which is 20 times the per-bank limit. They also make it easy to invest any cash above the FDIC-insured amount in a money market fund, a hundred thousand startups trust Mercury with their finances. I've been a happy Mercury customer and have found their team incredibly helpful and responsive. Mercury is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services are provided by Choice Financial Group and involve bank and trust members FDIC. - MarketerHire: https://marketerhire.com/upstream MarketerHire is one of my favorite resources for growing startups looking to hire marketers. With 1000s of pre-vetted marketers across a dozen roles, whether you need help with growth, marketing, SEO, lifecycle, content, or any other aspect of growth marketing strategy. Over 5,000 companies already use MarketerHire to hire expert marketers on demand, ranging from top venture-backed startups to the most well-known Fortune 500s. Go to marketerhire.com/upstream and use code UPSTREAM to get your $1,000 credit for your first hire.

Vivek Ramaswamy is a 2024 Republican presidential candidate who founded biotech company Roivant Sciences, now public. He has written books about what he sees as the excesses of woke capitalism and started an asset management firm called Strive, meant to be a right-wing competitor with BlackRock. With his presidential campaign, Vivek challenges conventional orthodoxy on several core issues, including affirmative action and climate change. Regardless of what you may think about his policies or him, it's worth understanding how he stands to influence our upcoming election and inject his views into the mainstream. RECOMMENDED PODCASTS: Moment of Zen (lively tech discussions) & The Cognitive Revolution (AI show) wherever you get your podcasts. TIMESTAMPS:  (00:00) Preview of the episode (03:10) When Vivek changed from founder to presidential candidate (10:47) Vivek’s presidential platform: Affirmative action, Climate, Fed, Drug crisis (15:34) Sponsors: Secureframe | MarketerHire (16:58) Where Vivek overlaps/differs with Silicon Valley: DEI, Free speech, SVB (24:51) Meritocracy above all else? (31:32) How to remove politics from corporations (39:26) Silicon Valley should empathize more with the rest of the country? (55:56) Defining “woke” (57:14) What’s it like to run a presidential campaign SOCIAL LINKS: Erik’s Twitter: @eriktorenberg Vivek’s Twitter: @VivekGRamaswamy Podcast Twitter: @Upstream__Pod Erik’s Substack: eriktorenberg.substack.com Please support our sponsors: Secureframe | MarketerHire - Secureframe: https://secureframe.com/ Secureframe is the leading all-in-one platform for security and privacy compliance. Get SOC-2 audit ready in weeks, not months. I believe in Secureframe so much that I invested in it, and I recommend it to all my portfolio companies. Sign up for a free demo and mention UPSTREAM during your demo to get 20% off your first year. - MarketerHire: https://marketerhire.com/upstream MarketerHire is one of my favorite resources for growing startups looking to hire marketers. With 1000s of pre-vetted marketers across a dozen roles, whether you need help with growth, marketing, SEO, lifecycle, content, or any other aspect of growth marketing strategy. Over 5,000 companies already use MarketerHire to hire expert marketers on demand, ranging from top venture-backed startups to the most well-known Fortune 500s. Go to marketerhire.com/upstream and use code UPSTREAM to get your $1,000 credit for your first hire.

Joe Lonsdale is the founder of Palantir, 8VC, a number of other unicorns he’s incubated, and Cicero Policy Institute. In this episode we focus mostly on his policy, breaking down what are the real problems in healthcare, education, crime/police, homelessness and what are the solutions he recommends to fix them. We talk about how the right is focused on the culture war when fixing accountability will actually be a more effective way to change the culture. We talk about the future for the right, why wealth inequality is the wrong metric to measure, and what it means to believe in America in 2023. This episode was recorded in February 2023. RECOMMENDED PODCASTS: Moment of Zen https://www.podpage.com/moment-of-zen-1/ The Cognitive Revolution https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai/ LINKS REFERENCED: To Save America Restore Our Frontier ( https://blog.joelonsdale.com/p/to-save-america-restore-our-frontier ) HIstorian Ronald Syme ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Syme ) TIMESTAMPS: (2:10) How Joe Lonsdale maximizes his impact  (4:10) The focus of Joe’s public policy org, Cicero (6:58) Why institutional reform is more effective than fighting the culture war  (9:11) Misunderstandings about education  (11:56) government unions shouldn’t exist (14:02) Misunderstandings about prison reform and crime (17:31) Misunderstandings about homelessness (20:13) Sponsors (25:52) Explaining our healthcare problems (31:53) When to reform vs start new institutions (37:00) What’s the power of a presidency / State reform vs federal reform (39:54) The frontier vs the core (42:40) Draining the swamp (42:50) Wealth inequality  (46:20) Equality of opportunity is a myth (48:00) Appreciating billionaires (51:00) Peter Thiel isn’t really focused on politics (53:00) The future of the right (57:42) Why be an American optimist SOCIAL LINKS: Erik’s Twitter: @eriktorenberg Joe’s Twitter: @JTLonsdale Podcast Twitter: @Upstream__Pod Erik’s Substack: eriktorenberg.substack.com Joe’s Substack: blog.joelonsdale.com Please support our sponsors: Secureframe | Mercury | MarketerHire - Secureframe: https://secureframe.com/ Secureframe is the leading all-in-one platform for security and privacy compliance. Get SOC-2 audit ready in weeks, not months. I believe in Secureframe so much that I invested in it, and I recommend it to all my portfolio companies. Sign up for a free demo and mention UPSTREAM during your demo to get 20% off your first year. - Mercury: https://mercury.com/ Now more than ever, startup founders need a safe place to put their cash. Mercury protects your money and also provides the streamlined user experience that great founders expect through partner banks and their sweep networks.Mercury offers up to $5 million in FDIC insurance, which is 20 times the per-bank limit. They also make it easy to invest any cash above the FDIC-insured amount in a money market fund, a hundred thousand startups trust Mercury with their finances. I've been a happy Mercury customer and have found their team incredibly helpful and responsive. Mercury is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services are provided by Choice Financial Group and involve bank and trust members FDIC. - MarketerHire: https://marketerhire.com/upstream MarketerHire is one of my favorite resources for growing startups looking to hire marketers. With 1000s of pre-vetted marketers across a dozen roles, whether you need help with growth, marketing, SEO, lifecycle, content, or any other aspect of growth marketing strategy. Over 5,000 companies already use MarketerHire to hire expert marketers on demand, ranging from top venture-backed startups to the most well-known Fortune 500s. Go to marketerhire.com/upstream and use code UPSTREAM to get your $1,000 credit for your first hire.

David Sacks is known as a CEO/investor in multiple unicorns, and most recently a media mogul with All-In. In this episode, we trace David’s intellectual and political history from his days fighting student activism at Stanford to now. We cover the political and cultural changes in the last 30 years of silicon valley, how the real distinction today is between the college-educated and the not, and how even though 2⁄3 of the country didn’t go to college, their views are not represented in our institutions today. This episode was recorded in December 2022 but is just as relevant today.  Recommended Podcasts: Moment of Zen https://www.podpage.com/moment-of-zen-1/ The Cognitive Revolution: https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai/ TIMESTAMPS: (2:18) How did tech become less free speech oriented? (3:30) Why is PayPal so woke? (5:25) Woke Capitalism game (8:25) Corporations and governments collaborating to censor (9:30) Tracing political history in Silicon Valley  (17:45) College educated vs. not is the biggest difference in US (21:50) Our elite is not democratic (23:50) Sponsors: Secureframe | Mercury | MarketerHire (26:22) David’s experience with student activism in the 1990s (28:00) David’s evolution on foreign policy  (31:15) U.S. Russiaphobia (34:45) Why David supports big-tech regulations (39:05) How to do regulations well (43:00) Social Progress (48:00) Is classical liberalism a dead end? (50:53) Is Institutional Reform possible (53:00) Elon’s character arc and political journey (1:01:25) Will there be a parallel economy? (1:05:33) Employee entitlement was a bull-market phenomenon (1:10:15) Accountability for elites is the solution SOCIAL LINKS: David’s Twitter: @davidsacks Erik’s Twitter: @eriktorenberg Podcast Twitter: @Upstream__Pod Erik’s Substack: eriktorenberg.substack.com Please support our sponsors: Secureframe | Mercury | MarketerHire - Secureframe: https://secureframe.com/ Secureframe is the leading all-in-one platform for security and privacy compliance. Get SOC-2 audit ready in weeks, not months. I believe in Secureframe so much that I invested in it, and I recommend it to all my portfolio companies. Sign up for a free demo and mention UPSTREAM during your demo to get 20% off your first year. - Mercury: https://mercury.com/ Now more than ever, startup founders need a safe place to put their cash. Mercury protects your money and also provides the streamlined user experience that great founders expect through partner banks and their sweep networks.Mercury offers up to $5 million in FDIC insurance, which is 20 times the per-bank limit. They also make it easy to invest any cash above the FDIC-insured amount in a money market fund, a hundred thousand startups trust Mercury with their finances. I've been a happy Mercury customer and have found their team incredibly helpful and responsive. Mercury is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services are provided by Choice Financial Group and involve bank and trust members FDIC. - MarketerHire: https://marketerhire.com/upstream MarketerHire is one of my favorite resources for growing startups looking to hire marketers. With 1000s of pre-vetted marketers across a dozen roles, whether you need help with growth, marketing, SEO, lifecycle, content, or any other aspect of growth marketing strategy. Over 5,000 companies already use MarketerHire to hire expert marketers on demand, ranging from top venture-backed startups to the most well-known Fortune 500s. Go to marketerhire.com/upstream and use code UPSTREAM to get your $1,000 credit for your first hire.

Ezra Klein, journalist, political analyst, and podcaster, sits with Erik Torenberg to go deeper into the intellectual movement of supply-side progressivism and what Silicon Valley misses about politics. This conversation was recorded in early February 2023, but is even more relevant today. TIMESTAMPS: (0:00) Preview of Ezra discussing Elon Musk (2:16) Unpacking supply side liberalism and the abundance agenda (7:55) Contrasting Ezra’s Buildism with Marc Andreessen and Tyler Cowen (12:20) Why we can't build (16:36) Sponsors: Secureframe | Mercury | MarketerHire (18:47) Unions (21:06) Ezra on what Silicon Valley misunderstands about politics (24:15) Abundance agenda is bipartisan, but will polarize (27:05) Ezra on immigration and free trade (31:08) Reinterpreting Ezra’s book Why We’re Polarized in 2023 (34:30) Institutional distrust (39:10) Davos elite v. Tech Elite v. Crypto Elite (47:10) What makes Elon right wing? (51:50) Chris Caldwell’s theory of polarization (53:50) Has the left gone too far left? (1:00:15) What the president can actually do (1:04:40) The deep state (1:07:00) Where he differs from Patrick Collison (1:10:15) Equality of opportunity vs a sufficient floor (1:12:00) Why inequality matters (1:14:27) Billionaires buying media platforms (1:16:55) Elon and the era of the trickster god (1:20:30) Ezra’s book recommendation SOCIAL LINKS: Erik’s Twitter: @eriktorenberg Ezra’s Twitter: @ezraklein Podcast Twitter: @Upstream__Pod Erik’s Substack: eriktorenberg.substack.com Please support our sponsors: Secureframe | Mercury | MarketerHire - Secureframe: https://secureframe.com/ Secureframe is the leading all-in-one platform for security and privacy compliance. Get SOC-2 audit ready in weeks, not months. I believe in Secureframe so much that I invested in it, and I recommend it to all my portfolio companies. Sign up for a free demo and mention UPSTREAM during your demo to get 20% off your first year. - Mercury: https://mercury.com/ Now more than ever, startup founders need a safe place to put their cash. Mercury protects your money and also provides the streamlined user experience that great founders expect through partner banks and their sweep networks.Mercury offers up to $5 million in FDIC insurance, which is 20 times the per-bank limit. They also make it easy to invest any cash above the FDIC-insured amount in a money market fund, a hundred thousand startups trust Mercury with their finances. I've been a happy Mercury customer and have found their team incredibly helpful and responsive. Mercury is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services are provided by Choice Financial Group and involve bank and trust members FDIC. - MarketerHire: https://marketerhire.com/upstream MarketerHire is one of my favorite resources for growing startups looking to hire marketers. With 1000s of pre-vetted marketers across a dozen roles, whether you need help with growth, marketing, SEO, lifecycle, content, or any other aspect of growth marketing strategy. Over 5,000 companies already use MarketerHire to hire expert marketers on demand, ranging from top venture-backed startups to the most well-known Fortune 500s. Go to marketerhire.com/upstream and use code UPSTREAM to get your $1,000 credit for your first hire.

Balaji Srinivasan, author of The Network State and co-founder of Counsyl, talks to Erik Torenberg about his past and future predictions, the future of the left and right, and why tech will never be able to escape politics.  Check out the other podcasts on our network, Moment of Zen (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id1661672738) and our AI show The Cognitive Revolution (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id1669813431) TIMESTAMPS: (0:00) Preview of episode (2:30) Why are the scariest words in the English language “Balaji was right” (7:06) When to reform vs start a new institution (9:50) Are ideas weapons? (13:31) Sponsors (15:30) You don’t start with a tech company anymore, you start with a tech community (18:58) Internet nationalism (22:06) What "political" means (26:20 ) Activist movements are like “pump and dumps” (29:40) What the sovereign individual misses (41:03) Bitcoin is still the flag of technology (45:38) Democrats will move to the right on immigration (57:20) Tech America vs Woke America (58:00) Why are tech people so woke? (1:03:39) The left will flip on diversity (1:05:00) The left is shifting from wokeism to statism (1:15:17) Bitcoiners will take over the right wing party (1:21:28) Elon SOCIAL LINKS: Erik’s Twitter: @eriktorenberg Balaji’s Twitter: @balajis Podcast Twitter: @Upstream__Pod Erik’s Substack: eriktorenberg.substack.com Please support our sponsors: Secureframe | Mercury | MarketerHire - Secureframe: https://secureframe.com/ Secureframe is the leading all-in-one platform for security and privacy compliance. Get SOC-2 audit ready in weeks, not months. I believe in Secureframe so much that I invested in it, and I recommend it to all my portfolio companies. Sign up for a free demo and mention UPSTREAM during your demo to get 20% off your first year. - Mercury: https://mercury.com/ Now more than ever, startup founders need a safe place to put their cash. Mercury protects your money and also provides the streamlined user experience that great founders expect through partner banks and their sweep networks.Mercury offers up to $5 million in FDIC insurance, which is 20 times the per-bank limit. They also make it easy to invest any cash above the FDIC-insured amount in a money market fund, a hundred thousand startups trust Mercury with their finances. I've been a happy Mercury customer and have found their team incredibly helpful and responsive. Mercury is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services are provided by Choice Financial Group and involve bank and trust members FDIC. - MarketerHire: https://marketerhire.com/upstream MarketerHire is one of my favorite resources for growing startups looking to hire marketers. With 1000s of pre-vetted marketers across a dozen roles, whether you need help with growth, marketing, SEO, lifecycle, content, or any other aspect of growth marketing strategy. Over 5,000 companies already use MarketerHire to hire expert marketers on demand, ranging from top venture-backed startups to the most well-known Fortune 500s. Go to marketerhire.com/upstream and use code UPSTREAM to get your $1,000 credit for your first hire.

Marc Andreessen of a16z sits with Erik Torenberg to go deeper into his intellectual and political journey, and his quest to find out how the world works. PODCAST INFO: Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-education-of-marc-andreessen/id1678893467?i=1000605668194 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/0bYfnuju3PhHFtSGgiMmoz  Podcast website: https://cms.megaphone.fm/channel/RINTP2392005652?selected=RINTP1202048731  SOCIAL LINKS: Erik’s Twitter: @eriktorenberg Marc’s Twitter: @pmarca Podcast Twitter: @Upstream__Pod Erik’s Substack: Erik Torenberg Marc’s Substack: Marc Andreessen TIMESTAMPS: (0:00) Intro (3:25) How much has Marc changed vs the world changed? (6:55) How much do ideas matter? Who drives society — the elite or the masses? (09:56) People respond to interests more than ideas (12:08) Mental models for the left and the right (14:45) Sponsors (Secureframe | Mercury | MarketerHire) (16:53) The road to hell is paved with good intentions (18:40) Master morality and slave morality (23:20) Unpacking Elon’s quote “Wokeness is the mind-virus” (26:00) Is classical liberalism sustainable and how it leads to wokeness (35:00) James Burnham’s worldview (42:50) How the left captured the institutions (45:20) Elon as the return to entrepreneurial capitalism (48:03) The experiments Elon is running (54:50) The billionaire mindset toward politics (57:30) We live in an oligarchy, not a democracy (1:06:00) Larry Page is the contrarian billionaire (1:07:30) Effective Altruism’s blind spots (1:10:36) Effective altruists think they can play god (1:11:16) SBF’s roll-the-dice philosophy (1:13:23) Aristocratic vs Meritocratic elite (1:21:48) Elites are insulated from the consequences of their policies (1:23:53) Why global governance is a nerd trap (1:27:16) Global governance is anti-diversity (1:30:42) Tech people are politically homeless (1:31:37) Elites can’t be removed, they can only be replaced (1:35:02) Advice for counter-elites (1:47:21) Reasons to be optimistic Please support our sponsors: Secureframe | Mercury | MarketerHire - Secureframe: https://secureframe.com/ Secureframe is the leading all-in-one platform for security and privacy compliance. Get SOC-2 audit ready in weeks, not months. I believe in Secureframe so much that I invested in it, and I recommend it to all my portfolio companies. Sign up for a free demo and mention UPSTREAM during your demo to get 20% off your first year. - Mercury: https://mercury.com/ Now more than ever, startup founders need a safe place to put their cash. Mercury protects your money and also provides the streamlined user experience that great founders expect through partner banks and their sweep networks.Mercury offers up to $5 million in FDIC insurance, which is 20 times the per-bank limit. They also make it easy to invest any cash above the FDIC-insured amount in a money market fund, a hundred thousand startups trust Mercury with their finances. I've been a happy Mercury customer and have found their team incredibly helpful and responsive. Mercury is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services are provided by Choice Financial Group and involve bank and trust members FDIC. - MarketerHire: https://marketerhire.com/upstream MarketerHire is one of my favorite resources for growing startups looking to hire marketers. With 1000s of pre-vetted marketers across a dozen roles, whether you need help with growth, marketing, SEO, lifecycle, content, or any other aspect of growth marketing strategy. Over 5,000 companies already use MarketerHire to hire expert marketers on demand, ranging from top venture-backed startups to the most well-known Fortune 500s. Go to marketerhire.com/upstream and use code UPSTREAM to get your $1,000 credit for your first hire.

Upstream is where Erik Torenberg interviews the world's most foundational thinkers to map the constellation of ideas that matter across tech, culture, and politics. You'll hear topics here first, and in the mainstream months later. Ask yourself, what’s upstream of what you believe? Interviewed for this season of Upstream: Marc Andreessen, David Sacks, Ezra Klein, Balaji Srinivasan, Katherine Boyle, Joe Lonsdale, and more luminary thinkers who are changing the world. Follow the podcast wherever you listen so you never miss an episode. Email feedback to the show to info@turpentine.co