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Coaching for Leaders

Coaching for Leaders
Author: Dave Stachowiak
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Description
Leaders aren't born, they're made. This Monday show helps you discover leadership wisdom through insightful conversations. Independently produced weekly since 2011, Dr. Dave Stachowiak brings perspective from a thriving, global leadership academy, plus more than 15 years of leadership at Dale Carnegie. Bestselling authors, expert researchers, deep conversation, and regular dialogue with listeners have attracted 40 million downloads and over 250K followers on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. Activate your FREE membership to access the entire leadership and management library at CoachingforLeaders.com
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Vanessa Druskat: The Emotionally Intelligent Team
Vanessa Druskat is an associate professor at the Peter T. Paul College of Business and Economics at the University of New Hampshire. She advises leaders and teams at over a dozen Fortune 500 and Fortune Global 500 companies and wrote the best-selling Harvard Business Review article (with S. Wolff) on emotionally intelligent teams that has been chosen many times for inclusion in HBR’s most valued articles. She is the author of The Emotionally Intelligent Team: Building Collaborative Groups that Outperform the Rest (Amazon, Bookshop)*.
It’s easy to assume that a good start for a great team is getting the smartest people together. That does help, but it’s not the critical factor in whether a team performs. In this conversation, Vanessa and I discuss why the word belonging makes such a difference.
Key Points
Raw talent of the individual and their own interpersonal skills don’t predict team performance.
Belonging is critical for team performance. Leaders often miss this because they already feel like they belong.
Team members understanding each other is the first and most critical norm.
Beginning meetings with check-ins or gallery walks helps people understand each other, even if it’s not discussed extensively.
Inviting people to bring everyday objects to illustrate a more complex point helps make understanding accessible.
The leader sets the tone, but it’s the interaction between team members that makes the difference.
Resources Mentioned
The Emotionally Intelligent Team: Building Collaborative Groups that Outperform the Rest (Amazon, Bookshop)* by Vanessa Druskat
Interview Notes
Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).
Related Episodes
How to Engage Remote Teams, with Tsedal Neeley (episode 537)
Team Collaboration Supports Growth Mindset, with Mary Murphy (episode 695)
How to Help People Connect at Work, with Wes Adams (episode 735)
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Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.
Scott Keller: A CEO For All Seasons
Scott Keller is a senior partner at McKinsey, where he coleads the firm’s global CEO Excellence work within the Strategy & Corporate Finance Practice and serves as a global leader in the Organization Practice. He’s a New York Times bestselling author and trusted advisor to boards, CEOs, and senior leadership teams, with whom he guides multiyear, enterprise-wide transformations that shape the future of institutions. His colleagues and he are the authors of the new book, A CEO For All Seasons: Mastering the Cycles of Leadership (Amazon, Bookshop)*.
One of the most critical phases of taking on the top job is what you do at the start. Whether it’s stepping into the role as president, general manager, executive director, owner, or CEO, starting well can make all the difference. In this conversation, Scott and I explore how to begin in the best way possible.
Key Points
One-third to one-half of new CEOs are considered to be failing within eighteen months of taking the role. Many wish they’d handled the transition differently.
New CEOs enter a reality distortion field of many bosses (the board), no peers, and ultimate accountability for everything. The best CEOs guard against this by not making it about them.
Ask questions that aren’t about you, but the organization. Instead of, “How will I know if I’m successful?” ask, “How will we know if we’re winning?”
Beginning with a listening tour is essential. People will tell you things when you’re new that they’ll never say two or three years later.
Create a fact-based, one version of the truth. Once you know it, keep to a single narrative for everyone.
Err towards complete candor in the toughest realities. Prepare intensely for moments of truth, when they need to happen.
Set clear boundaries and stay extremely disciplined. Your narrative and first moves should guide how you frame these.
Resources Mentioned
A CEO For All Seasons: Mastering the Cycles of Leadership (Amazon, Bookshop)* by Carolyn Dewar, Scott Keller, Vikram Malhotra, and Kurt Strovink
Interview Notes
Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).
Related Episodes
How Top Leaders Influence Great Teamwork, with Scott Keller (episode 585)
How to Genuinely Show Up for Others, with Marshall Goldsmith (episode 590)
How to Start a Big Leadership Role, with Carol Kauffman (episode 617)
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Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.
Neil Ghosh: Do More Good
Neil Ghosh is a seasoned executive whose expertise spans the nonprofit, government, philanthropic, and private sectors. With 30+ years of experience, he has successfully launched and scaled both nonprofit and for-profit ventures, building teams, business models, partnerships, and strategies to drive impact and support vulnerable populations in more than 50 countries. His book is Do More Good: Inspiring Lessons from Extraordinary People (Amazon, Bookshop)*.
There are many differences in the world today, and those differences influence leaders just like everybody else. That’s why Neil Ghosh has this invitation for us: “Never let age or ideology come between learning and growth.” In this conversation, Neil and I explore how we can lean in on great leadership through our common humanity.
Key Points
In anyone we know, we can always find one positive attribute that we can learn from.
Never let age or ideology come between learning and growth.
The Dalai Lama reminds us to offer compassion and kindness, regardless of whether the recipient is in need.
Give back without expecting fanfare. Help people get what they want through peer mentoring.
Use your platform to promote unity and to be an advocate for others.
Befriend people who have different views. Join or start a book club that intentionally selects books from diverse viewpoints.
Resources Mentioned
Do More Good: Inspiring Lessons from Extraordinary People (Amazon, Bookshop)* by Neil Ghosh
Interview Notes
Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).
Related Episodes
How to Connect with People Better, with Charles Duhigg (episode 670)
Turning Down the Temperature on Outrage, with Karthik Ramanna (episode 711)
How to Bring Out the Best in People, with Donna Hicks (episode 724)
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Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.
Margaret Andrews: Manage Yourself to Lead Others
Margaret Andrews is a seasoned executive, academic leader, speaker, and instructor. Her course MYLO (Manage Yourself to Lead Others) has become the most popular professional development program at Harvard. She is the author of Manage Yourself to Lead Others: Why Great Leadership Begins with Self-Understanding (Amazon, Bookshop)*.
Virtually every book, course, and program on leadership begins with self-understanding. That’s no accident; it’s because managing ourselves helps us lead others more effectively. In this episode, Margaret and I explore the six key questions that will help you manage yourself better.
Key Points
When people are asked to describe the attributes of their best bosses, 85% of the responses highlight interpersonal skills.
Our differences are our features, not our flaws. Knowing yourself well helps you lead others better.
Six Questions for Self-Understanding:
Who, and whose thinking, has shaped you as an individual?
What situations and events have helped shape your perspective?
What does success look like for you?
What are your core values, and how have these values changed throughout your life?
To what extent are you aware of—and allow yourself to feel—your emotions?
What feedback have you received over the years about how your actions and behaviors impact others?
Resources Mentioned
Manage Yourself to Lead Others: Why Great Leadership Begins with Self-Understanding by Margaret Andrews (Amazon, Bookshop)*
Interview Notes
Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).
Related Episodes
Enhance Your Self-Awareness, with Daniel Goleman (episode 353)
The Way to Be More Self-Aware, with Tasha Eurich (episode 442)
Discover Who You Are, with Hortense le Gentil (episode 459)
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Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.
Mark Crowley: The Power of Employee Well-Being
Mark Crowley is a pioneer in workplace leadership, a speaker, and the bestselling author of Lead from the Heart. He is the host of the Lead from the Heart podcast. His new book is The Power of Employee Well-Being: Move Beyond Engagement to Build Flourishing Teams (Amazon, Bookshop)*.
When I talk with leaders, many of them tell me that it’s really hard to decide on how much recognition to give people vs. constructive or critical feedback. In this conversation, Mark and I highlight the ideal ratio to calibrate our communications so that we support people’s well-being while also helping them grow.
Key Points
Despite the focus on employee engagement, actual engagement scores are the same or worse than a decade ago.
Post-COVID, there’s a massive move towards employee well-being. This is good for both the organization and the employee.
An ideal positivity ratio is 4:1 in many relationships. That’s four positive interactions for every constructive or critical interaction.
We react more strongly to negative influence than positive influence, thus the need for a ratio favoring the positive.
Positive interactions include optimism, enthusiasm, solutions orientation, encouragement, kindness, thoughtfulness, approachability, interest, and appreciation.
Leaders still must make unpopular decisions, set expectations, and give critical feedback. Positive interactions are in addition to these, not instead of them.
Resources Mentioned
The Power of Employee Well-Being: Move Beyond Engagement to Build Flourishing Teams (Amazon, Bookshop)* by Mark Crowley
Interview Notes
Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).
Related Episodes
How to Build Psychological Safety, with Amy Edmondson (episode 404)
Gallup Findings on the Changing Nature of Work, with Jim Harter (episode 409)
The Way to Notice People Better, with Zach Mercurio (episode 733)
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Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.
Dave speaks with Tracey Gardner, an alum of the Coaching for Leaders Academy, on the critical nature of making space in order to adapt to change.
Apply to the Coaching for Leaders Academy by Friday, September 12th.
Apply to the Coaching for Leaders Academy by Friday, September 12th.
In this episode, Dave shares five ways to help leaders thrive through inflection points, including:
Redirect vs. respond
Set team norms
Ask a second question
Picture tomorrow’s commitment today
Hold a funeral
Colin Fisher: The Collective Edge
Since his days as a professional jazz trumpet player, Colin Fisher has been fascinated by group dynamics. Today, he is an Associate Professor of Organizations and Innovation at University College London's School of Management, researching the hidden processes of helping groups and teams in situations requiring creativity, improvisation, and complex decision-making. He is the author of The Collective Edge: Unlocking the Secret Power of Groups (Amazon, Bookshop).
Most of us assume that the best thing we can do for our teams is to be a great coach as they’re working together. That absolutely helps, but the research says that only 10% of group effectiveness is what we do once the team is underway. In this conversation, Colin and I explore how to get a lot better at the other 90%.
Key Points
The house always wins. If the structure isn’t right for the team to succeed, little else matters in the long run.
Leaders tend to put a majority of their attention on coaching teams in progress instead of the more significant work at the start of structuring and launching teams.
Work on fixing structural problems before you focus on fixing the process.
60% of group effectiveness is determined by structure, 30% by the launch, and 10% by expert coaching.
Critical for structure is the team goal being clear, important, and challenging. Be sure to document it.
Negotiate roles, tasks, and jobs to support structure. Determine early how to articulate progress and highlight small wins.
Ask yourself if the group has the right people to achieve the objective. Deep diversity that supports the goal is essential.
Surface discussions about norms at the start, especially related to communication and storage of information.
At a team launch, articulate why everyone is there, discuss key norms, and schedule a midpoint to reflect and align.
Resources Mentioned
The Collective Edge: Unlocking the Secret Power of Groups (Amazon, Bookshop) by Colin Fisher
Interview Notes
Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).
Related Episodes
How to Create Team Guidelines, with Susan Gerke (episode 192)
How to Generate Quick Wins, with Andy Kaufman (episode 496)
How to Increase Team Performance Through Clarity, with David Burkus (episode 657)
Discover More
Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.
Dave speaks with Elham Bidar, an alum of the Coaching for Leaders Academy, on the importance of balancing both technology and people in leadership.
Apply to the Coaching for Leaders Academy by Friday, September 12th.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff: Tiny Experiments
Anne-Laure Le Cunff is an award-winning neuroscientist, entrepreneur, and writer. She is the founder of Ness Labs and author of its widely read newsletter, a researcher at the ADHD Research Lab, and an advisor for the Applied Neuroscience Association. She is the author of Tiny Experiments: How to Live Freely in a Goal-Obsessed World*.
We all get into a rut sometimes. Once we notice we’re in one, our tendency is to work really hard to get out of it. In this conversation, Anne-Laure and I explore how starting with something tiny is often the better bet.
Key Points
SMART goals assume we know exactly where we’re heading. Most of the time, that’s not clear.
A tiny experiment focuses on outputs instead of outcomes.
To build more comfort with uncertainty, find one small place to experiment.
Our brain uses growth loops to constantly adjust our trajectory. We don’t go in circles; we grow in circles.
Improving growth isn’t about knowledge or skill; it’s thinking about your thinking, questioning your responses, and knowing your mind.
A simple, 5-minute tool is Plus Minus Next. It surfaces what’s working, what’s not, and your next steps.
Resources Mentioned
Tiny Experiments: How to Live Freely in a Goal-Obsessed World* by Anne-Laure Le Cunff
Interview Notes
Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).
Related Episodes
How to Become the Person You Want to Be, with James Clear (episode 376)
How to Change Your Behavior, with BJ Fogg (episode 507)
How to Create Space, with Juliet Funt (episode 540)
Discover More
Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.
Dave speaks with Anna Bellini, an alum of the Coaching for Leaders Academy, on how to stop a behavior in order to move forward.
Apply to the Coaching for Leaders Academy by Friday, September 12th.
Lorraine K. Lee: Unforgettable Presence
Lorraine K. Lee is passionate about helping ambitious professionals go from invisible to unforgettable in the modern workplace. She is recognized as a LinkedIn Top Voice in workplace communication and presence and spent over a decade as a founding editor at top tech firms like LinkedIn and Prezi, where she worked on core products including the LinkedIn Daily News module and LinkedIn Newsletters. She is the author of Unforgettable Presence: Get Seen, Gain Influence, and Catapult Your Career.
Small talk. We all love to hate it – and we also know that most of us will end up in small talk with someone who’s got a lot of influence. It may be an executive or an external stakeholder. Either way, handling it well can open up doors. In this conversation, Lorraine and I detail how to make small talk go better.
Key Points
Small talk is the starting point before a deeper relationship.
Most opportunities for executive small talk are predictable. Preparation will help you speak well.
Set the tone with positive energy. Rather than dominating the interaction or passively reacting to it, thread your conversations so each party shares equally.
At the office, be ready with a sentence or two about who you work with and what you’re working on. Relationships and outcomes are more memorable than titles.
At social events, share a hobby or interest and ask about theirs. Keep questions open-ended as you would with a friend.
Have a topic ready to go for quick interactions. Sharing a thought about a book or podcast that relates to your organization is a useful resource to have at the ready.
Review your go-to topics regularly so that you always have a relevant conversation topic.
Resources Mentioned
Unforgettable Presence: Get Seen, Gain Influence, and Catapult Your Career by Lorraine K. Lee
Lorraine's weekly newsletter
Lorraine's career tips on LinkedIn Learning
Interview Notes
Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).
Related Episodes
Executive Presence with Your Elevator Speech, with Tom Henschel (episode 316)
How to Talk to People Who Intimidate You, with Shandy Welch (episode 706)
A Key Tactic for Way Better Conversations, with Alison Wood Brooks (episode 717)
Discover More
Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.
Dave speaks with Mel Rivera, an alum of the Coaching for Leaders Academy, on how she built visibility for her team.
Apply to the Coaching for Leaders Academy by Friday, September 12th.
Mort Sherman: Resonant Minds
Mort Sherman is the retired Senior Associate Executive Director of the American Association of School Administrators, known for his visionary leadership as a superintendent dedicated to elevating academic standards and promoting equitable education. Throughout his career, he championed initiatives that addressed achievement gaps and empowered communities to foster inclusive, impactful learning environments. He is the author, along with his daughter Sara Leila Sherman, of Resonant Minds: The Transformative Power of Music, One Note at a Time.
So many of us love music, and it’s often at the core of a lot of our personal lives, celebrations, and emotions. But we don’t often think about how we can leverage its power at work. In this conversation, Mort and I explore how music can help us set the tone for better leadership.
Key Points
One way to nurture our teams and ourselves is a continual call for leaders, and music is an avenue we don’t often consider.
Using music as mindful action, coupled with executive function skills, supports the habits of successful leadership.
Start meetings with music or mindfulness exercises for collective focus, productive discussions, and creative outcomes.
Create team playlists to build community. Combine playlists with meetings to help support trust and respect.
Use music to reinforce a message or theme, tied to the needs of the moment.
Resources Mentioned
Why Cooks Cook from The Bear
Interview Notes
Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).
Related Episodes
The Power of Leadership Through Hospitality, with Will Guidara (episode 688)
How to Better Manage Your Emotions, with Ethan Kross (episode 719)
What Leaders Should Learn from Taylor Swift, with Kevin Evers (episode 739)
Discover More
Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus
Dave speaks with Erann Lincoln, an alum of the Coaching for Leaders Academy, on how she started small to build stronger relationships with her team.
Apply to the Coaching for Leaders Academy by Friday, September 12th.
Jenny Wood: Wild Courage
Over an 18-year career at Google, Jenny Wood grew from entry-level to executive, most recently leading a large operations team that helped drive billions of revenue per year. In 2021, she started a passion project within Google called Own Your Career, which grew to one of the largest career development programs in Google’s history. Her work has since been featured in Harvard Business Review, Entrepreneur, and Forbes, and she’s now the author of Wild Courage: Go After What You Want and Get It*.
Leadership is about serving others – and it’s also ensuring that we take care of ourselves along the way. Sometimes leaders over-index on helping their organizations and teams, to their own detriment. In this conversation, Jenny and I explore where being a little more selfish might actually be better for everyone.
Key Points
Selfish redefined means having the courage to stand up for what you want.
People want to join a winning team, even if they don’t say that out loud.
Guilt is natural, but always caving to it is self-defeating.
Don’t do work that’s not actually promotable. There’s no prize for an empty inbox.
A belief like “I owe it to them,” may signal an over-commitment to the organization. They will not love you back.
Appreciate truth when you get it, but don’t sign up for a burned-out boss.
It’s inefficient to always be in the lead. Draft in another leader’s wake.
Resources Mentioned
Wild Courage: Go After What You Want and Get It* by Jenny Wood
Interview Notes
Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).
Related Episodes
Align Your Calendar to What Matters, with Nir Eyal (episode 431)
The Ways Leadership Can Derail Us, with Bill George (episode 596)
The Path to More Joy in Work and Life, with Judith Joseph (episode 734)
Discover More
Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.
Roger Kneebone: Expert
Roger Kneebone directs the Imperial College Centre for Engagement and Simulation Science and the Royal College of Music–Imperial College Centre for Performance Science. He researches what experts from different fields can learn from one another, including a creative team of clinicians, computer scientists, musicians, magicians, potters, puppeteers, tailors, and fighter pilots. He is the author of Expert: Understanding the Path to Mastery*.
Many leaders get into the roles they have because they are the experts in their work. But once you’re leading, the work is less about being the expert and more about teaching your expertise to others. In this conversation, Roger and I explore how to get better at doing this well.
Key Points
Experts don’t often recognize that they are experts.
A characteristic of many experts is a dissatisfaction with where they are and an awareness that they could do better.
Experts should notice what’s missing and what would be most helpful to the less experienced person.
Effective teachers zero in on one thing at a time, even if they notice many areas for improvement.
Passing along expertise is not just the skills themselves but the perspective of why each skill matters.
Land in the zone of proximal development. The skill should neither be too easy nor too difficult.
Resources Mentioned
Expert: Understanding the Path to Mastery* by Roger Kneebone
Interview Notes
Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).
Related Episodes
Help People Learn Through Powerful Teaching, with Pooja Agarwal (episode 421)
The Art of Mentoring Well, with Robert Lefkowitz (episode 599)
How to Handle High-Pressure Situations, with Dan Dworkis (episode 701)
Discover More
Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.
Sabina Nawaz: You’re the Boss
Sabina Nawaz is an executive coach who advises C-level executives and teams at Fortune 500 corporations, government agencies, nonprofits, and academic institutions. During her 14-year tenure at Microsoft, she went from managing software development teams to leading the company’s executive development and succession planning efforts for over 11,000 managers and nearly a thousand executives, advising Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer directly. She’s the author of You're the Boss: Become the Manager You Want to Be (and Others Need)*.
Every leader I know intends to be authentic. Unfortunately, we sometimes use authenticity as an excuse not to do the critical work of calibrating our actions. In this conversation, Sabina and I discuss how to avoid that trap so we can show up more genuinely for others.
Key Points
“Yeah, but…” signals justification and holds us back from what we most need to learn.
Your success comes despite unhelpful traits, not because of them.
Pure authenticity is a complete fallacy. Authenticity is not singular.
We sometimes use authenticity as an excuse not to do the important work of calibrating our actions.
Don’t let the smokescreen of past “authenticity” get in the way of growth.
Authenticity is not static. Reading your old past social media posts will remind you of this.
When shifting, start with small experiments to nudge you in a new direction.
Language that may be warning signs of the authenticity trap:
“That’s just how I am.”
“I’m not the kind of person who…”
“I’m not being true to myself if…”
“That’s the way I’ve always done things, and it’s worked for me.”
Resources Mentioned
You're the Boss: Become the Manager You Want to Be (and Others Need)* by Sabina Nawaz
Interview Notes
Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).
Related Episodes
How to Change Your Behavior, with BJ Fogg (episode 507)
How to Start a Big Leadership Role, with Carol Kauffman (episode 617)
The Habits That Hold Leaders Back, with Marshall Goldsmith (episode 696)
Discover More
Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.
Minda Harts: Talk to Me Nice
Minda Harts is a bestselling author, workplace consultant, and sought-after keynote speaker who is redefining what it means to build trust in the workplace. As the bestselling author of The Memo, Right Within, and You Are More Than Magic, Minda has empowered thousands to be their own best advocates and navigate workplace challenges with confidence. She has just released her newest book, Talk to Me Nice: The Seven Trust Languages for a Better Workplace.
Sometimes we assume that we’re helping by shielding people from difficult news. But as we all know, virtually everyone wants transparency from leaders. In this conversation, Minda shows us how to get better at it.
Key Points
You’re not helping by shielding people from difficult conversations.
Most everyone assumes baseline behaviors of employees. Employees expect reciprocity through transparency.
We often think about transparency with information that’s known. Just as important is clarity about what’s not known.
Even when you can’t share news, you can put time and resources into what will help people handle a new reality when it arrives.
Transparency provides clear, honest, and timely information.
Promote transparency in roles. A job description is a helpful starting point for this.
Good intentions do not mean good impact. When changes happen, communicate them as quickly as practical.
Resources Mentioned
Talk to Me Nice: The Seven Trust Languages for a Better Workplace* by Minda Harts
Interview Notes
Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).
Related Episodes
The Path Towards Trusting Relationships, with Edgar Schein and Peter Schein (episode 539)
How to Help Difficult Conversations Go Better, with Sheila Heen (episode 655)
Preparing for a Conversation with Someone You Don’t Trust, with Charles Feltman (episode 708)
Expert Partner
Are you a talent development or human resources leader seeking a coach for an internal client? Coaching for Leaders has partnered with some of the top coaches in the world, including a number of past podcast guests. Help us make an introduction by visiting our Expert Partners Page and telling us what you’re seeking in a coach.
Discover More
Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.
Michael Bungay Stanier: Change Signal
Michael Bungay Stanier is best known for The Coaching Habit, the best-selling coaching book of the century and recognized as a classic. He was a Rhodes Scholar, and was recently awarded the coaching prize by Thinkers50. He's now the host of the new Change Signal podcast.
If you’re doing change right, it’s going to be messy. In this conversation, Michael Bungay Stanier returns to show us where to start, the key mindsets to have, and the first steps for getting traction.
Key Points
If you’re doing change right, it’s going to be messy.
Before you remove a fence, figure out why it’s there.
Take inspiration from Emily Dickinson: “Tell all the truth but tell it slant.”
Beware giving lip service to the emotional realities of change and then moving forward without really addressing them.
Strategy is a living conversation. Run experiments. Fire bullets before cannonballs.
Motivation is a critical factor in change. Better to be less efficient and have people with you than to force compliance with a “perfect” plan.
Emily Dickinson:
Tell all the truth but tell it slant —
Success in Circuit lies
Too bright for our infirm Delight
The Truth's superb surprise
As Lightning to the Children eased
With explanation kind
The Truth must dazzle gradually
Or every man be blind —
Resources Mentioned
Change Signal podcast hosted by Michael Bungay Stanier
The Coaching Habit* by Michael Bungay Stanier
Related Episodes
Engaging People Through Change, with Cassandra Worthy (episode 571)
How to Approach a Reorg, with Claire Hughes Johnson (episode 621)
How to Prevent a Team From Repeating Mistakes, with Robert “Cujo” Teschner (episode 660)
Expert Partner
Are you a talent development or human resources leader seeking a coach for an internal client? Coaching for Leaders has partnered with some of the top coaches in the world, including a number of past podcast guests. Help us make an introduction by visiting our Expert Partners Page and telling us what you’re seeking in a coach.
Discover More
Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.
hi good morning, thanks for sharing those weekly podcasts it has been a great opportunity to learn, past week you shared a podcast that was previously recorded but somehow I couldn't find it anymore, could you please let me know what is the podcast number? it was about managing up better . tks
I think David is a bit misguided about his comments that most companies want to pay a fair wage. It’s been since the late 1990s that I’ve worked for a company that actually put this into practice. Myself and the people I know, who do talk to me about their salaries, share how there’s either significant disparities for themselves being either over or under market value. My research into salaries in the marketplace for roles that I have filled indicate that my salary is rarely at market value. 
I love MBS books and talks.
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if you can make it worse, you can make it better - put that into your mindset and visualize
I'm passionate about this podcast. it's helpful.
Great! Effective listening is an essential skill for communication and building strong relationship
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This is a fantastic podcast. Thanks, Dave and Jacob.
Thank you so much for this episode and excellent advice on dealing with triggers. I'm sure everyone can benefit from trying some of the takeaways.
Thank you Jorge for sharing your story and experiences. Very remarkable and inspiring.
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Thank you Dave for sharing your very touching personal story. My thoughts are with you and your family.
Nice
great conversation. found this really helpful.
SOOOOOO GOOD!!
Thanks Dave and Peter !!! this answer a question troubled me for some time!
so beautiful!!! Thanks!
oh my! this is gold!!!
great!!!