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Jennifer Garvey Berger: Unleashing Your Complexity Genius Jennifer believes that leadership is one of the most vital renewable resources in the world. She designs and teaches leadership programs, coaches senior teams, and supports new ways of thinking about strategy and people. In her three highly acclaimed books, Unlocking Leadership Mindtraps, Simple Habits for Complex Times (co-authored with Keith Johnston), and Changing on the Job, she builds on deep theoretical knowledge to offer practical ways to make leaders’ work more meaningful and their lives more fun. She has worked with senior leaders in the private, non-profit, and government sectors around the world with organizations like Novartis, Google, KPMG, Intel, Microsoft, Wikimedia, and the New Zealand Department of Conservation. Jennifer also supports executives one-on-one as a leadership coach. Over the last decade, she has developed the Growth Edge Coaching approach. She supports clients to find their current growing edge and then make choices about how they want to develop. She teaches coaches around the world transformational and developmental coaching approaches in her Growth Edge Coaching certification series. Jennifer speaks at leadership and coaching conferences, and she offers courses for coaches at universities all over the world. She is the co-author with Carolyn Coughlin of Unleash Your Complexity Genius: Growing Your Inner Capacity to Lead*. In this conversation, Jennifer and I discuss the reality that most of us don’t like uncertainty. That makes experimenting with new ideas and actions in complex environments very challenging. We uncover several practices that can help us benefit from experimentation in the midst of complexity and grow from these experiences. Key Points Complicated situations are hard, but have a clear answer (such as how to send humans to the moon). In contract, complex situations are dynamic; yesterday’s answer may not work tomorrow. Most of us really dislike complexity, to the extent that that people with terminal diseases are happier than those who will likely recover. Step-by-step approaches don’t work in very complex situations. Instead, take action through thoughtful experimentation. When experimenting, release your attachment to outcomes. Lean into humility and don’t shy away from endings. Putting end dates on experiments helps us move forward — and sometimes remove what isn’t working. Resources Mentioned Unleash Your Complexity Genius: Growing Your Inner Capacity to Lead* by Jennifer Garvey Berger and Carolyn Coughlin Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes Essentials of Adult Development, with Mindy Danna (episode 273) How to Pivot Quickly, with Steve Blank (episode 476) Help Your Brain Learn, with Lisa Feldman Barrett (episode 513) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic.
Wendy Smith: Both/And Thinking Wendy Smith is the Dana J. Johnson Professor of Management and faculty director of the Women’s Leadership Initiative at the Lerner College of Business and Economics, University of Delaware. She earned her PhD in organizational behavior at Harvard Business School, where she began her intensive research on strategic paradoxes—how leaders and senior teams effectively respond to contradictory, yet interdependent demands. She has received the Web of Science Highly Cited Research Award for being among the 1 percent most-cited researchers in her field and received the Decade Award from the Academy of Management Review for the most cited paper in the past 10 years. Her work has been published in such journals as Academy of Management Journal, Administrative Science Quarterly, Harvard Business Review, Organization Science, and Management Science. She has taught at the University of Delaware, Harvard, and Wharton while helping senior leaders and middle managers all over the world address issues of interpersonal dynamics, team performance, organizational change, and innovation. She is the author with Marianne Lewis of Both/And Thinking: Embracing Creative Tensions to Solve Your Toughest Problems. In this episode, Wendy and I discuss the dangers of either/or thinking and how that tendency limits our effectiveness. We explore how to shift to both/and thinking in order to resolve the most challenging problems. Plus, we share key tactics that will help us do this in more practical ways. Key Points Framing a decision as an either/or will often minimize short-term anxiety, but limits creative and innovative long-term possibilities. While easy to see both/and opportunities for others, we’re likely to approach things as either/or when it’s ourselves. An outside perspective from someone who’s not emotionally connected is helpful. Changing the question we are asking is the most powerful to navigate paradoxes. Moving up a level when facing tough decisions can help us see the big picture. Consider shifting from “making a choice” to “choosing” in order to lead us towards better outcomes. Resources Mentioned Both/And Thinking: Embracing Creative Tensions to Solve Your Toughest Problems* by Wendy Smith and Marianne Lewis Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes How to Ask Better Questions, with David Marquet (episode 454) How to Win the Long Game When the Short-Term Seems Bleak, with Dorie Clark (episode 550) The Leadership Struggles We See, with Muriel Wilkins (episode 559) How to Quit Bad Stuff Faster, with Annie Duke (episode 607) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic.
Jorge Alzate Jorge Alzate is a senior R&D manager at PepsiCo, an active leader in Toastmasters, and an alum of the Coaching for Leaders Academy. In this conversation, Jorge and I discuss what brought him to the podcast, how he utilized the Academy to help his career move forward, and the critical nature of courage for leadership growth. Key Points One action a day (the blue marbles for Jorge) is the way to create a new habit that can develops into a skill. Accountability is key to move us forward, even if it does not feel comfortable in the moment. Courage is the ability to act in spite of fear — and almost always necessary before confidence. Resources Mentioned Feel the Fear...and Do It Anyway* by Susan Jeffers Winning Conditions: How to Achieve the Professional Success You Deserve by Managing the Details That Matter* by Christine Hofbeck Related Episodes Leadership Through Consistency, with Joseph Getuno (episode 490) How to Build Confidence, with Katy Milkman (episode 533) How to Protect Your Confidence, with Nate Zinsser (episode 573) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic.
Patrick Lencioni: The 6 Types of Working Genius Patrick Lencioni is founder and president of The Table Group, a firm dedicated to protecting human dignity in the world of work, personal development, and faith. Pat’s passion for organizations and teams is reflected in his writing, speaking, executive consulting, and most recently his three podcasts, At the Table with Patrick Lencioni, The Working Genius Podcast, and The Simple Reminder. Pat is the author of twelve best-selling books with over seven million copies sold. After twenty years in print, his classic book The Five Dysfunctions of a Team remains a weekly fixture on national best-seller lists. He has been featured in numerous publications, including the Wall Street Journal, Harvard Business Review, USA Today, Inc. magazine, and Chief Executive magazine. He is the author of The 6 Types of Working Genius: A Better Way to Understand Your Gifts, Your Frustrations, and Your Team. Many of us have heard the invitation from Jim Collin’s book Good to Great to get the right people on the bus. But once the right people are on the bus, how to do you find the right seat for each person? On this episode, Pat and I discuss how to utilize the Working Genius model to find the right work for the right team members. Key Points When addressing burnout, the type of work someone does is more significant than the volume of work. Three stages of work are present for almost every team: ideation, activation, and implementation. A cup of coffee in an excellent thermos can stay hot an entire day — that’s true of us when we’re aligned with our working geniuses. Finding the right work for a team member is far easier than finding the right person culturally. Before you look elsewhere, be sure they are in the right seat. To fill gaps in your team’s geniuses, you can hire, borrow, or find people where competence will suffice for now. Resist the temptation to immediately jump to hiring. Resources Mentioned The 6 Types of Working Genius assessment The 6 Types of Working Genius: A Better Way to Understand Your Gifts, Your Frustrations, and Your Team by Patrick Lencioni Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes How to Get the Ideal Team Player, with Patrick Lencioni (episode 301) How to Lead an Offsite, with Tom Henschel (episode 377) The Mindset Leaders Need to Address Burnout, with Christina Maslach (episode 609) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic.
Ram Charan: Leading Through Inflation Ram Charan is a bestselling author, teacher, and world-renowned advisor to CEOs and other business leaders of some of the world’s best-known companies. His work is often behind the scenes and focused on highly sensitive and fate-making issues. Fortune magazine published a profile of Ram in which it called him “the most influential consultant alive.” His book Execution, lauded for its practicality, spent more than 150 weeks on the New York Times bestseller list. Ram’s energetic, interactive teaching style has won him several awards, including from GE’s famous Crotonville Institute and Northwestern. Ram was elected a Distinguished Fellow of the National Academy of Human Resources and was named one of the most influential people in corporate governance and the board room by Directorship magazine. He has served on the Blue Ribbon Commission on Corporate Governance and serves or has served on a dozen boards in the U.S., Brazil, China, India, Canada, and Dubai. He is the author with Geri Willigan of Leading Through Inflation: And Recession And Stagflation. In this conversation, Ram and I explore the changing macroeconomic environment and what leaders can do to address it. We discuss the importance of managing cash well and how pricing decisions can be made effectively. Plus, we discuss the critical nature of partnerships throughout the supply chain — and where the opportunities may be in the midst of challenge. Key Points Inflation consumes cash. Cash management is the number one risk to an organization during this time. The way to get ahead of the curve is to be predictive vs. reactive. This may be a time the existing business model needs to change. Inflation creates an illusion of growth. It’s important to adjust for this in all reporting and planning. Work with all sides of the value chain. Help customers deal with rising costs while also working closely with suppliers. Regular communication is essential. Smaller, regular price adjustments are better than less frequent, larger increases. Resist the temptation to offer less for the same price. Resources Mentioned Leading Through Inflation: And Recession And Stagflation* by Ram Charan and Geri Willigan. Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes Improve Your Financial Intelligence, with Joe Knight (episode 244) How to Approach Corporate Budgeting, with Jody Wodrich (episode 355) How to Multiply Your Impact, with Liz Wiseman (episode 554) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic.
Christina Maslach: The Burnout Challenge Christina Maslach is the pioneer of research on job burnout, producing the standard assessment tool called the Maslach Burnout Inventory, award-winning articles, and several books, beginning with Burnout: The Cost of Caring, in 1982. Her research achievements over the past five decades have led to multiple awards from the National Academy of Sciences, Western Psychological Association, Society for Personality and Social Psychology, and many others. Christina has received awards for her outstanding teaching, including USA Professor of the Year in 1997. She has been a Professor of Psychology at the University of California, Berkeley since 1971. Christina is now a core researcher at the Healthy Workplaces Center, at Berkeley, and the author along with Michael Leiter of The Burnout Challenge: Managing People's Relationships With Their Jobs*. In this conversation, Christina and I address the reality that burnout is often perceived as an issue with just the individual. We explore how leaders can begin to look at the larger picture: context, culture, and management, in order to address burnout more proactively. We discuss key mindsets that will help and a few tactics that almost every leader can use to get started. Key Points The canary in the coal mine is an indicator of a problem, not the source of it. Our tendency is to focus on the person (the figure) and to miss all the context and environment factors (the ground). Burnout is first and foremost a management issue. “Fixing” the person should not be the focus — instead, get curious about where there is a mismatch. Instead of focusing on what’s wrong with the person, shift to what may be wrong in the relationship between the person and situation. Ensure you have a plan for communicated survey results. If you’d done surveys previously, share those results and also the actions the organization had taken before engaging in more surveys. Resources Mentioned The Burnout Challenge: Managing People's Relationships With Their Jobs* by Christina Maslach and Michael Leiter Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes Gallup Findings on the Changing Nature of Work, with Jim Harter (episode 409) How to Reduce Burnout, with Jennifer Moss (episode 561) How to Compare Yourself to Others, with Mollie West Duffy (episode 582) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic.
Annie Duke: Quit Annie Duke is an author, corporate speaker, and consultant in the decision-making space, as well as Special Partner focused on Decision Science at First Round Capital Partners, a seed stage venture fund. Her previous book, Thinking in Bets, is a national bestseller. As a former professional poker player, she has won more than $4 million in tournament poker. During her career, Annie won a World Series of Poker bracelet and is the only woman to have won the World Series of Poker Tournament of Champions and the NBC National Poker Heads-Up Championship. She retired from the game in 2012. Prior to becoming a professional poker player, she was awarded a National Science Foundation Fellowship to study Cognitive Psychology at the University of Pennsylvania. Annie is the co-founder of The Alliance for Decision Education, a non-profit whose mission is to improve lives by empowering students through decision skills education. She is a member of the National Board of After-School All-Stars and the Board of Directors of the Franklin Institute. She also serves on the board of the Renew Democracy Initiative. Annie is the author of Quit: The Power of Knowing When to Walk Away*. We’ve all heard the lie that, “Winners never quit and quitters never win.” In reality, one of the best practices to develop is how to recognize more quickly when you should quit something that’s not working. In this conversation, Annie and I discuss how to set kill criteria for yourself and frame goals in more helpful ways to know when quitting is the best answer. Key Points Kenny Rogers was right; professional poker players know that a big part of success is quitting approximately 75% of the time. “Quit while you’re ahead” is often poor advice since we tend to quit too early when good things are happening. On the contrary, we tend to quit too late when we’ve accumulated sunk cost. Determine kill criteria in advance when you’re not as likely to be swayed by the emotions of the moment. The best criteria contain both a state and a date. Find someone who loves you but doesn’t care about your feelings. Trust and permission are essential to open up these kinds of conversations. Effective goals include at least one “unless…” Resources Mentioned Quit: The Power of Knowing When to Walk Away* by Annie Duke Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes How to Pivot Quickly, with Steve Blank (episode 476) The Way to Make Better Decisions, with Annie Duke (episode 499) How to Build Confidence, with Katy Milkman (episode 533) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic.
Kristin Keffeler: The Myth of the Silver Spoon Kristin Keffeler is a thought leader and consultant at the forefront of a global shift in family wealth advising, known as Wealth 3.0. She guides affluent and enterprising families, the rising generation, and the professionals who support them in embracing the positive power of wealth, aligning their vision with their impact. As the founder of Illumination360, she specializes in human motivation and behavioral change, family dynamics, family governance, rising generation education and development, and intergenerational collaboration. She is the Dean of Positive Psychology for the Purposeful Planning Institute, sits on the Board of Advisors for the Bailey Program for Family Enterprise at the University of Denver, is a faculty member with the Ultra-High Net Worth Institute, a certified trainer with 21/64, a national nonprofit for advancing multigenerational philanthropy, and is the co-founder of Beneficiary Bootcamp. She is the author of The Myth of the Silver Spoon: Navigating Family Wealth & Creating an Impactful Life*. In this conversation, Kristin and I discuss a reality that’s true for almost every leader: whether we have wealth ourselves, almost all of us interact with wealthy people. We explore some of the myths of wealth to understand the psychological challenges that wealth often brings. Plus, we learn from what works (and doesn’t) for wealthy families so that we can have better conversations about wealth in our own families. Key Points While wealth brings resources, it also brings psychological challenges for many people with wealth. More money doesn't equal happiness. Small inheritances can increase happiness, but large ones do not. Many people with wealth find close relationships a bit of a struggle. While our perception may be that the most wealthy are selfish and greedy, more often individuals (especially next generations) tend to under-identify with family wealth. Ground decisions in values that align with a vision of thriving. There’s a huge difference in the next generation having a little bit of ownership in a financial event vs. not having any ownership. Resources Mentioned The Myth of the Silver Spoon: Navigating Family Wealth & Creating an Impactful Life* by Kristin Keffeler Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes How to Reduce Drama With Kids, with Tina Payne Bryson (episode 310) Dumb Things Smart People Do With Money, with Jill Schlesinger (episode 396) The Way to Build Wealth, with Chris Hogan (episode 502) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic.
Ian Morgan Cron: The Road Back to You Ian Morgan Cron is a bestselling author, speaker, trained psychotherapist, songwriter, and Episcopal priest, but he may be best known for popularizing the Enneagram. The Enneagram is a personality typing system identifying nine types of people and how they relate to one another and the world. His popular Enneagram book, The Road Back to You* gave fresh language and interest in this assessment. Ian enjoys sharing about the Enneagram with audiences of all sizes because of its power for igniting personal growth, and how it can enrich our personal and professional lives. His newest book The Story of You* helps people go a step further, using Enneagram wisdom to uncover and rewrite our own false narratives so we can live life more fully. In this conversation, Ian and I look at the core aspects of the Enneagram model and how it can help us understand ourselves better so we can also support others more effectively. We highlight the nine Enneagram types and their key traits and distinctions. Then, we discuss how the first steps leaders might take in order to start raising their own self-awareness. Key Points Too often we believe that how we see the world is “normal” instead of recognizing that there are many normal ways to see the world. Personality is like the rooms of our home. We have a favorite room but we still use all the other rooms when its appropriate. The 9 Enneagram Types The Perfectionist - Ethical, dedicated and reliable, they are motivated by a desire to live the right way, improve the world, and avoid fault and blame. The Helper - Warm, caring and giving, they are motivated by a need to be loved and needed, and to avoid acknowledging their own needs. The Performer (or Achiever) - Success-oriented, image-conscious and wired for productivity, they are motivated by a need to be (or appear to be) successful and to avoid failure. The Romantic (or Individualist) - Creative, sensitive and moody, they are motivated by a need to be understood, experience their oversized feelings and avoid being ordinary. The Investigator - Analytical, detached and private, they are motivated by a need to gain knowledge, conserve energy and avoid relying on others. The Loyalist - Committed, practical and witty, they are worst-case-scenario thinkers who are motivated by fear and the need for security. The Enthusiast - Fun, spontaneous and adventurous, they are motivated by a need to be happy, to plan stimulating experiences and to avoid pain. The Challenger - Commanding, intense and confrontational, they are motivated by a need to be strong and avoid feeling weak or vulnerable. The Peacemaker - Pleasant, laid back and accommodating, they are motivated by a need to keep the peace, merge with others and avoid conflict. Resources Mentioned The Road Back to You: An Enneagram Journey to Self-Discovery* by Ian Morgan Cron and Suzanne Stabile The Story of You: An Enneagram Journey to Becoming Your True Self* by Ian Morgan Cron Take the Integrative Enneagram iEQ9 Typology Institute Enneagram courses Related Episodes Enhance Your Self-Awareness, with Daniel Goleman (episode 353) The Way to Be More Self-Aware, with Tasha Eurich (episode 442) Discover Who You Are, with Hortense le Gentil (episode 459) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic.
Gustavo Razzetti: Remote Not Distant Gustavo Razzetti is the CEO and founder of Fearless Culture, a culture design consultancy that helps teams do the best work of their lives. For more than 20 years, he has helped leaders from Fortune 500s, startups, nonprofits, and everything in between. He is also the creator of the Culture Design Canvas, a framework used by thousands of teams and organizations across the world to map, assess, and design their culture. In addition to his consulting work, Gustavo regularly speaks with leaders and teams about culture change, teamwork, and hybrid workplaces. He is the author of four books on culture change. His most recent book is Remote Not Distant: Design a Company Culture That Will Help You Thrive in a Hybrid Workplace*. In this conversation, Gustavo and I explore the critical nature of trust for building belonging on hybrid and remote teams. We examine the principles of psychological safety and how this matters just as much in digital collaboration. Perhaps most importantly, we look at several tactics to open up trust that will help us pave the ways towards team belonging. Key Points Hybrid work environments have the potential to be the best of both words, but in some places it is now worse. Trust is between individuals. Psychological safety is about how safe we feel with a team. It’s helpful to think of building psychological safety like climbing a ladder. Ironically, the higher you go on the ladder, the safer you feel taking risks. Welcoming questions such as “What's your superpower?” and “What's your kryptonite?” can be useful starting points for building trust. Metaphors are often a powerful way to entire into more complex, emotional discussion without feeling unsafe. Resources Mentioned Remote Not Distant: Design a Company Culture That Will Help You Thrive in a Hybrid Workplace* by Gustavo Razzetti Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes How to Create Team Guidelines, with Susan Gerke (episode 192) How to Build Psychological Safety, with Amy Edmondson (episode 404) How to Engage Remote Teams, with Tsedal Neeley (episode 537) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic.
Lynn Perry Wooten: The Prepared Leader Lynn Perry Wooten is a seasoned academic and an expert on organizational development and transformation. She became the ninth president of Simmons University on July 1, 2020 and is the first African American to lead the university. Her research specializes in crisis leadership, diversity and inclusion, and positive leadership—organizational behavior that reveals and nurtures the highest level of human potential. Lynn has also had a robust clinical practice, providing leadership development, education, and training for a wide variety of companies and institutions, from the Kellogg Foundation to Harvard University’s Kennedy School, and to Google. She is the coauthor of Arrive and Thrive: 7 Impactful Practices for Women Navigating Leadership and the coeditor of Positive Organizing in a Global Society: Understanding and Engaging Differences for Capacity Building and Inclusion. She is also the author with Erika James of The Prepared Leader: Emerge from Any Crisis More Resilient Than Before*. In this conversation, Lynn and I discuss why crises are not isolated events, even through they are often treated that way. We explore the critical nature of trust and how to build it quickly in crisis. We then detail three key areas of trust that will help leaders begin to support a team shift towards better outcomes. Key Points Crises are not single events. They happen again and again, necessitating leaders preparation for them. In normal times, trust is key. In a time of crisis, it’s essential. Regular communication is essential in a crisis. Avoid the tendency to downplay risks. In fact, it’s useful to paint a picture of the worst case scenario. Leaders need to determine is there is a strong sense of a contractual obligation between them and their teams. It’s critical for leaders to assess the competence of their team to be able to respond to the crisis at hand. Frequent, high performance meetings are essential during a time of crisis. Resources Mentioned The Prepared Leader: Emerge from Any Crisis More Resilient Than Before* by Lynn Perry Wooten and Erika James Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes How to Lead in Crisis, with Carol Taylor (episode 55) How to be Diplomatic, with Susan Rice (episode 456) The Way Out of Major Conflict, with Amanda Ripley (episode 529) The Starting Point for Inclusive Leadership, with Susan MacKenty Brady (episode 584) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic.
Gemma Aguiar: Design Like Whoa Gemma Aguiar is the CEO of Design Like Whoa. Her firm helps brands like Sephora, Meta, the Golden State Warriors, and Spotify amplify their brand and strengthen their culture through sustainably focused apparel, accessories, and gifts. Her team serves clients by curating meaningful, high-quality products through partnership with local, minority-owned, sustainable, and mission-driven businesses. She's also an alum of the Coaching for Leaders Academy. In this episode, Gemma and I discuss the transition she made of doing it all herself early on in the business to now empowering a large team. We detail how she made this change tactically through calendar blocking, regular delegation, and intentional outcomes. Plus, we explore how asking for help is a critical muscle for all leaders to develop. Key Points Gemma didn’t see the growth potential in her traditional role, so she started her own, sustainable business. Being able to do lots of things well can be a trap for leaders. Shifting to delegate effectively is key. Getting clear on how time is used through planning and calendar blocking is essential. The responsibility of leadership changes over time. It’s key to be able to learn and adapt as the organization demands a different skillset. Asking for help is a critical competency for leaders. Getting better at this opens tons of doors. Resources Mentioned Design Like Whoa hello@designlikewhoa.com Related Episodes These Coaching Questions Get Results, with Michael Bungay Stanier (episode 237) Five Steps to Hold People Accountable, with Jonathan Raymond (episode 306) The Way to Capture the Power of Moments, with Chip Heath (episode 329) Align Your Calendar to What Matters, with Nir Eyal (episode 431) How to Define a Role, with Pat Griffin (episode 517) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic.
Jon Clifton: Blind Spot Jon Clifton is the CEO of Gallup. His mission is to help 7 billion citizens be heard on their most pressing work and life issues through the Gallup World Poll, a 100-year initiative spanning over 150 countries. He is a nonresident senior fellow at Baylor University’s Institute for Studies of Religion and serves on the boards of directors for Gallup and Young Professionals in Foreign Policy. Jon has been interviewed on BBC News, Axios, C-SPAN’s “Washington Journal,” and Al-Jazeera, and he has testified in front of the U.S. Congress on the state of American small business and entrepreneurship. He is a frequent contributor on Gallup.com and has written for The Hill, The Diplomatic Courier, and The Global Action Report. He is the author of Blind Spot: The Global Rise of Unhappiness and How Leaders Missed It. In this conversation, Jon and I discuss why many objective numbers like GDP appear positive and yet don’t correlate to wellbeing and happiness. We examine how to think about more subjective measures and ways for leaders and organizations to gain insight. Plus, we dialogue about what managers can do to help make genuine connections in the workplace. Key Points While objective trends worldwide such as GDP and the Human Development Index have been positive for decades, people are angrier, sadder, and more worried than ever. There’s a key distinction between how someone sees their life and how someone lives their life. Money does not buy happiness, but it is hard to be happy without it. Frequent conversations, listening, and framing work around strengths are key actions managers can take to address unhappiness with employees. Examples of questions/survey topics to ask of customers to gain insight into emotional attachment: Company always delivers on what they promise. I feel proud to be a Company customer. Company is the perfect company for people like me. Examples of questions/survey topics to ask of suppliers to to gain insight into emotional attachment: Company always treats me with respect. Company is easy to do business with. Company always does what they say they will do. Resources Mentioned Blind Spot: The Global Rise of Unhappiness and How Leaders Missed It* by Jon Clifton CliftonStrengths (formerly StrengthsFinder) assessment Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes These Coaching Questions Get Results, with Michael Bungay Stanier (episode 237) How Teams Use StrengthsFinder Results, with Lisa Cummings (episode 293) How to Help People Thrive, with Jim Harter (episode 532) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic.
Scott Anthony Barlow: Happen to Your Career Scott Anthony Barlow wants you to find work you love. He is CEO of Happen To Your Career and host of the Happen to Your Career podcast, which has been listened to over 3 million times across 159 countries and is the largest career change podcast in the world. As a former HR leader, Scott has interviewed over two thousand people for jobs and completely rejects the way most organizations choose to do work. He’s a nerd for self development, human behavior, and ice hockey. He's the author of the book Happen to Your Career: An Unconventional Approach to Career Change and Meaningful Work*. In this conversation, Scott and I discuss the assumptions that many of us bring to finding career happiness — and where those assumptions might lead us astray. We also explore in detail the process that Scott and his team use with clients: career experimenting. In addition, Scott and I share how we’ve used experimenting in our own careers to align with meaning. Key Points People assume that you start with clarity. In actuality, you start with declaring priorities, which is what eventually creates clarity. Taking vacation or an extended break from work is important for many reasons, but it’s not often the activity that creates clarity. Movement and experimenting is the way you move from declaring your priorities to creating clarity. Use career experiments as a way to begin surfacing interests and relationships that will help you to find clarity. Leaders should open the door to career experimentation to support employees in developing themselves inside the organization — or potentially moving onto other opportunities. Resources Mentioned Happen to Your Career: An Unconventional Approach to Career Change and Meaningful Work* by Scott Anthony Barlow Finding the Career That Fits You (Scott’s FREE 8-Day Video Course) Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes How to Actually Move Numbers, with Chris McChesney (episode 294) Three Steps to Great Career Conversations, with Russ Laraway (episode 370) Ten Years of Leadership, with Dave Stachowiak (episode 541) How to Reduce Burnout, with Jennifer Moss (episode 561) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic.
Robert Lefkowitz: A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to Stockholm Robert Lefkowitz is James B. Duke Professor of Medicine and Professor of Biochemistry and Chemistry at the Duke University Medical Center. His group spent 15 difficult years developing techniques for labeling the receptors with radioactive drugs and then purifying the four different receptors that were known and thought to exist for adrenaline. In 1986 Bob and his team transformed the understanding of what had become known as G protein coupled receptors, when he and his colleagues cloned the gene for the beta2-adrenergic receptor. Today, more than half of all prescription drug sales are of drugs that target either directly or indirectly the receptors discovered by Bob and his trainees. These include amongst many others beta blockers, angiotensin receptor blockers or ARBs and antihistamines. He has received numerous honors and awards, including the National Medal of Science, the Shaw Prize, the Albany Prize, and the 2012 Nobel Prize in Chemistry. He was elected to the National Academy of Sciences, the Institute of Medicine, and the American Academy of Arts and Sciences. He is the author with Randy Hall of A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to Stockholm: The Adrenaline Fueled Adventures of an Accidental Scientist. In this conversation, Bob and I explore the important nature of mentoring in his success — and how he has in turn utilized mentoring to support so many colleagues and students. We discuss the importance of building careers around problems versus techniques and other key principles that effective mentors adopt. Plus, we explore the key of ownership of work and using fun as an indicator to follow. Key Points Success is rarely accidental. Most people with extraordinary accomplishments had outstanding mentors along the way. Teach people to build their careers around problems, not techniques. The crucial job of a mentor is to keep things in focus for the person you are mentoring — both in their current work and their careers. People achieve the most motivation when they have ownership over their work. A key measure of striking the right guidance between ownership and guidance is whether or not everybody is having fun. Resources Mentioned A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to Stockholm: The Adrenaline Fueled Adventures of an Accidental Scientist* by Robert Lefkowitz Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes What You Gain By Sponsoring People, with Julia Taylor Kennedy (episode 398) How to Know What You Don’t Know, with Art Markman (episode 437) How to Lead and Retain High Performers, with Ruth Gotian (episode 567) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic.
Oscar Trimboli: How to Listen Oscar Trimboli is an author, host of the Apple award-winning podcast Deep Listening and a sought-after keynote speaker. He is passionate about using the gift of listening to bring positive change in homes, workplaces, and cultures around the world. Through his work with chairs, boards of directors, and executive teams, Oscar has experienced firsthand the transformational impact leaders and organizations can have when they listen beyond the words. Oscar is a marketing and technology industry veteran with over 30 years experience across general management, sales, marketing, and operations for Microsoft, PeopleSoft, Polycom, Professional Advantage, and Vodafone. He is the author of the book, Deep Listening and now, his newest book, How to Listen: Discover the Hidden Key to Better Communication*. In this conversation, Oscar and I explore several of the assumptions that tend to get in our way of listening well. Oscar highlights distinctions that will be useful mindsets for you in showing up better in future conversations. Plus, we discuss how listing goes far beyond simply asking questions. Key Points Before we begin listening, it is helpful to tune…much like as orchestra. We can’t always give our full attention, but we can make the choice as to whether we are paying attention or giving attention. As much as we intend otherwise, sometimes we listen less well in our closest relationships. Aim to be curious instead of drawing conclusions. Asking questions does not necessarily mean you are listening well. Aimless and arbitrary questions are everywhere. Resources Mentioned How to Listen: Discover the Hidden Key to Better Communication* by Oscar Trimboli Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes The Way to Be More Coach-Like, with Michael Bungay Stanier (episode 458) Four Habits That Derail Listening, with Oscar Trimboli (episode 500) How to Genuinely Show Up for Others, with Marshall Goldsmith (episode 590) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic.
Megan Reitz: Speak Up Megan Reitz is Professor of Leadership and Dialogue at Hult International Business School where she speaks, researches, consults and supervises on the intersection of leadership, change, dialogue and mindfulness. She is on the Thinkers50 ranking of global business thinkers and is ranked in HR Magazine’s Most Influential Thinkers listing. She has written Dialogue in Organizations and Mind Time. She is a regular contributor to Harvard Business Review and her research has recently featured in Forbes, on the BBC, in TEDx talks, and in numerous academic and practice-based journals. Her latest research on employee activism was nominated for the Thinkers50 Breakthrough Idea Award. Her most recent book with John Higgins is titled Speak Up: Say What Needs to Be Said and Hear What Needs to Be Heard*. Many leaders consider what they need to do in order to speak truth to others, but rarely focus on how to make it easier for people to speak to them. In this conversation, Megan and I explore what leaders can do in order to hear what needs to be heard. We share several tactics that will make it easier for others to surface what you need to hear. Key Points Speaking up and listening up go hand in hand. Power always affects what gets said and what gets heard. A key checkpoint is whether or not you really value the opinion of others. Where you have conversations can make a massive difference on how comfortable the other party is in surfacing an important message for you to hear. Leaders who have margin in their daily schedules create space for the right moment to hear truth. Proactively invite challenge and debate through specific invitations. One example: “What do you know that I need to know, but will never be told?” Resources Mentioned Speak Up: Say What Needs to Be Said and Hear What Needs to Be Heard* by Megan Reitz and John Higgins Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes How to Ask Better Questions, with David Marquet (episode 454) How to Speak Up, with Connson Locke (episode 546) How to Use Power Responsibly, with Vanessa Bohns (episode 551) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic.
Bill George: True North Bill George is executive fellow at Harvard Business School, where he has taught leadership since 2004. He is the author of four best-selling books: Authentic Leadership, True North, Discover Your True North, and 7 Lessons for Leading in Crisis. He was chair and CEO of Medtronic, the world’s leading medical technology company. Under his leadership, Medtronic’s market capitalization grew from $1.1 billion to $60 billion, averaging 35 percent a year. Bill has served as a director of Goldman Sachs, ExxonMobil, Novartis, Target, the Mayo Clinic, and World Economic Forum USA. He has been named one of the Top 25 Business Leaders of the Past 25 Years by PBS, Executive of the Year by Academy of Management, and Director of the Year by National Association of Corporate Directors. He is the author with Zach Clayton of True North: Leading Authentically in Today's Workplace, Emerging Leader Edition*. We’ve all seen leadership go badly and most of us struggle with tendencies to get pulled off course. In this conversation, Bill and I explore the five most common archetypes that tend to derail leaders and the antidote that prevents them. We also discuss how we can recognize these tendencies in ourselves so that we can do better for others. Key Points Five archetypes of leadership derailment: Imposters: political animals who figure out who their competitors and then eliminate them. Rationalizers: masters of denial who don’t take responsibility themselves. Glory seekers: motivated by the acclaim of the world. Loners: they believe they can make it on their own and reject feedback. Shooting stars: they build shallow foundations and move on quickly to the next things, often avoiding commitment. Antidotes to leadership derailment: Write down the most difficult ethical dilemma you are currently facing and chronicle the “least generous” interpretation of your actions. Project forward a decade and assume the worst: you have derailed in a major failure. Envision the situation in which you could lose your way. Resources Mentioned True North: Leading Authentically in Today's Workplace, Emerging Leader Edition* by Bill George and Zach Clayton Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes Discover Your True North, with Bill George (episode 225) Leadership Lies We Tell Ourselves, with Emily Leathers (episode 479) How to Help Your Manager Shine, with David Gergen (episode 588) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic.
Amy Gallo: Getting Along Amy Gallo is an expert in conflict, communication, and workplace dynamics. She combines the latest management research with practical advice to deliver evidence-based ideas on how to improve relationships and excel at work. In her role as a contributing editor at Harvard Business Review, Amy writes about interpersonal dynamics, communicating ideas, leading and influencing people, and building your career. Amy is co-host of HBR's Women at Work podcast and author of both the HBR Guide to Dealing with Conflict and Getting Along: How to Work with Anyone (Even Difficult People)*. In this conversation, Amy and I discuss one of the most common questions she receives from leaders: how do I handle a colleague who’s passive aggressive? We examine what causes this behavior, how to respond to it, and what to avoid that could worsen the relationship. Plus, we discuss the intention that leaders can bring in responding to passive-aggressive behavior that will help everybody move forward. Key Points Don’t use the “passive-aggressive behavior” to label someone. It rarely helps and often results in more defensiveness. Focus on the other person’s underlying concern or question rather than how they are expressing it. Not everyone is able to discuss thoughts and feelings openly. Consider doing hypothesis testing to determine what’s next. Language like, “Here’s the story I’m telling myself…” can help everyone move forward without assigning blame. When making a direct request, stick to the facts. Review past behavior like you’re a referee vs. a fan. Artificial harmony is a danger spot for teams and leaders. Setting norms can help to reduce passive-aggressive behavior. Resources Mentioned Getting Along: How to Work with Anyone (Even Difficult People)* by Amy Gallo Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes The Way to Have Conversations That Matter, with Celeste Headlee (episode 344) Four Habits That Derail Listening, with Oscar Trimboli (episode 500) How to Prepare for Conflict, with Amy Gallo (episode 530) The Way to Get People Talking, with Andrew Warner (episode 560) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic.
Comments (31)

David Lanchart

Thank you Jorge for sharing your story and experiences. Very remarkable and inspiring.

Jan 26th
Reply

Karen

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Nov 5th
Reply

David Lanchart

Thank you Dave for sharing your very touching personal story. My thoughts are with you and your family.

Oct 22nd
Reply (1)

mamadkazemi

Nice

Apr 24th
Reply

Ben P. Ashton

great conversation. found this really helpful.

Apr 20th
Reply

RebeccaMelton at MaryKay

SOOOOOO GOOD!!

Aug 6th
Reply

Patrecia Sapulette

Thanks Dave and Peter !!! this answer a question troubled me for some time!

Apr 5th
Reply (1)

Patrecia Sapulette

so beautiful!!! Thanks!

Apr 2nd
Reply

Patrecia Sapulette

oh my! this is gold!!!

Feb 2nd
Reply (1)

Patrecia Sapulette

great!!!

Feb 1st
Reply

Sonam Sherpa

bullshit podcast, waste of time

Dec 12th
Reply (1)

Ed Troxell

“Learning is messy” 👌

Jul 29th
Reply (1)

Frank Boucher (FBoucheros)

Nice episode explaining how a group can help you to grow and become a better "you", and that blogging is still a great way to structure/ but together our thoughts.

Jul 22nd
Reply

Özgür Yüksel

This is an awesome episode. Loads of golden notes in here..

Jun 9th
Reply

Jenae Adams

I loved this so much! I'm a millennial that's currently up for mentoring adoption. I own a business that specializes in finding and removing the blocks in a business that hold back their sales team from being successful and also removing the subconscious mental blocks that hold back the employees and team members from being confident and successful. The business name is Carefree Confidence, LLC and the website is www.carefree-confidence.com I would be so grateful to have a mentor that can help me move forward and I can help you grow leadership skills and the understanding of female millennials.

May 9th
Reply

Keiichi Minami

Excelleent podcast!

May 2nd
Reply

Tudor Popa

how come not all episodes available? looking for 139. thanks

Jan 15th
Reply (1)

David Lanchart

I love Lisa's perspective on looking outward instead of always looking inwards.

Dec 14th
Reply

Kronen Bing

very informative and told in an accessible and engaging way

Nov 29th
Reply

Harriet Cameron

Brilliant podcast. Thank you for sharing your insight! Harriet, New Zealand

Oct 24th
Reply
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