Finding Lucinda

Finding Lucinda follows a young singer-songwriter on a road trip of self discovery to trace the roots of their musical hero Lucinda Williams. Amidst self-doubt and uncertainty, ISMAY sets out from the family ranch in Northern California and travels to Texas, Louisiana and Tennessee. There ISMAY meets Lucinda’s early collaborators, digs through the archives to uncover hidden treasures, and visits the studios and venues where Lucinda got her start. Interviews include Charlie Sexton, Buddy Miller, and Mary Gauthier. Finding Lucinda is ultimately a story about not knowing whether you have what it takes to be the artist you want to be, and looking for answers on how to move forward anyways. It’s about finding a small way to be more like your hero. Season 1 ‘Finding Lucinda’ is a deep dive into the life and work of Lucinda Williams. Using archival material and interviews from the making of the documentary ‘Finding Lucinda’ as well as analysis from other artists, this season seeks to understand how Lucinda Williams became the iconic songwriter she is today with a focus on her early years. Interested in sponsoring us? Contact BGS: https://bit.ly/sponsorBGSpods

After living and working on the family ranch for almost a decade, Ismay is looking for change. For several years Ismay has been playing in a Lucinda Williams tribute band, and writing their own music. An opportunity to record an album sparks a new and different idea -- to instead embark on a road trip to uncover the early days of Lucinda's music career to find a way forward. However Ismay is plagued by self doubt about whether pursuing music would be worthwhile for them. But in spite of his uncertainty, Ismay dives into research to see where a journey across the country could lead. Credits: Distributed by The Bluegrass Situation Produced and mixed by Avery Hellman for Neanderthal Records LLC Music by ISMAY and The Lake Charlatans Artwork by Avery Hellman Guests: Mary Gauthier, Wolf Stephenson, John Grimaudo, Charlie Sexton Special thanks to: Joel Fendelman, Liz McBee, Rose Bush, Mick Hellman, Chuck Prophet, Jonathan McHugh, Jacqueline Sabec, Lucinda Williams & Tom Overby Interested in sponsoring us? Contact BGS: https://bit.ly/sponsorBGSpods Interested in sponsoring us? Contact BGS: https://bit.ly/sponsorBGSpods

Ismay arrives in Austin, Texas to dig through the Collections Deposit Library at the University of Texas in order to understand the life of Lucinda Williams' father, Miller. A poet and teacher, Miller Williams overcame setbacks to become a prominent writer. Ismay discovers his personal writings, letters, and photographs, highlighting his mentorship and the artistic community that shaped Lucinda's career. Credits: Distributed by The Bluegrass Situation Produced and mixed by Avery Hellman for Neanderthal Records LLC Music by ISMAY Artwork by Avery Hellman Austin Recording -- Recorded at The Collections Deposit Library at UT Austin, with records from The Harry Ransom Center Sound recordist: Rodrigo Nino Producer: Liz McBee Director: Joel Fendelman Co-Director: Rose Bush The Caterpillar and Of History and Hope appear courtesy of Rebecca Jordan Williams Special thanks to: Mick Hellman, Chuck Prophet, Jonathan McHugh, Jacqueline Sabec, Lucinda Williams & Tom Overby references: Don't Tell Anybody the Secrets I Told You by Lucinda Williams Living on the Surface, New and Selected Poems by Miller Williams The Ways We Touch, Poems by Miller Williams Making a Poem: Some Thoughts about Poetry and the People Who Write It https://oxfordamerican.org/web-only/the-kinship-is-real https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poets/miller-williams https://encyclopediaofarkansas.net/entries/southern-tenant-farmers-union-35/ https://www.jstor.org/stable/26671158 https://poets.org/poet/miller-williams https://muse.jhu.edu/article/740832 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPIgETlWaas https://poets.org/inaugural-poems-history https://news.uark.edu/articles/26213/miller-williams-remembered-as-poet-educator-co-founder-of-university-of-arkansas-press https://www.rrr.org.au/explore/news-articles/things-you-possibly-didnt-know-about-lucinda-williams https://www.swtimes.com/story/opinion/2016/11/16/a-poetically-proud-published-poet/24533470007/ Interested in sponsoring us? Contact BGS: https://bit.ly/sponsorBGSpods

Ismay visits cornerstone music venue The Hole in the Wall in Austin to interview Charlie Sexton, producer and songwriter who's best known as a guitarist for Bob Dylan. They discuss Charlie and Lucinda's first gig together in 1979 when he was just a kid. Charlie shares insights into Lucinda's remarkable songwriting, as well as the emotional struggles musicians face with self doubt. Credits: Distributed by The Bluegrass Situation Produced and mixed by Avery Hellman for Neanderthal Records LLC Music by ISMAY Sundays written by Lucinda Williams Greenville courtesy of Universal, Warner Chappell Artwork by Avery Hellman Music Supervisor Jonathan McHugh Austin Recording -- Recorded at The Hole in the Wall Sound recordist: Rodrigo Nino Producer: Liz McBee Director: Joel Fendelman Co-Director: Rose Bush Special thanks to: Mick Hellman, Chuck Prophet, Don Fierro, Jacqueline Sabec, Rosemary Carroll, Lucinda Williams & Tom Overby references: Charlie Sexton: Too Many Ways to Fall By Jason Crouch https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://docs.gato.txst.edu/56065/19_4_Sexton_Jason-Crouch.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiMsv2Uu7eMAxWRMlkFHVERNCMQFnoECEAQAQ&usg=AOvVaw02BTIq00dCCo9hgxH7IGi6 Ink in the Grooves by Flores Doore Don’t Tell Anybody the Secrets I Told You by Lucinda Williams https://delawareliberal.net/2021/10/27/song-of-the-day-10-27-lucinda-williams-2-kool-2-be-4-gotten/ https://www.upress.state.ms.us/Books/J/Juke-Joint https://michaelcorcoran.substack.com/p/clubland-paradise-rome-inn

Ismay uncovers a fascinating seldom heard recording of Lucinda from a radio show in 1981, leading them down a path to discover the musical influences in Lucinda's early Life. Meeting with members of the Grammy Award Winning band Los Texmaniacs, Ismay goes out on a limb and seeks to recreate that radio session in the famed Cactus Cafe.Credits:Distributed by The Bluegrass SituationProduced and mixed by Avery Hellman for Neanderthal Records LLCMusic by ISMAYFinal song by Los Cenzontles Cultural Academy https://www.loscenzontles.com/“Libro Abierto (ft. Flaco Jimenez)”Artwork by Avery HellmanAustin Recording —Recorded at The Cactus CafeSound Recordist: Rodrigo NinoProducer: Liz McBeeDirector: Joel FendelmanCo-Director & Cinematographer: Rose BushSpecial thanks to: Eugene Rodriguez, Matt Bizer, Mick Hellman, Chuck Prophet, Don Fierro, Jacqueline Sabec, Rosemary Carroll, Lucinda Williams & Tom OverbyInterested in sponsoring us? Contact BGS: https://bit.ly/sponsorBGSpodsreferenceshttps://www.folkstreams.net/films/it-s-a-mean-old-worldhttps://jamescalemine.com/reverend-pearly-brown-youre-gonna-need-that-pure-religion/https://www.austinchronicle.com/daily/music/2013-09-13/rough-trade-talk-with-lucinda-williams/https://pitchfork.com/features/5-10-15-20/lucinda-williams-on-the-music-that-made-her/Don’t Tell Anybody the Secrets I Told You by Lucinda Williams 

Ismay travels to Anderson Fair in Houston, Texas, a famed music venue with a unique history that includes legends like Lyle Lovett and Nanci Griffith. Ismay tracked down a special character from Lucinda's early career, who had largely been missing from the national music scene since the '70s. There they discover how artists' paths diverge and contemplate what we're all looking for when we seek out careers in music.Interested in sponsoring us? Contact BGS: https://bit.ly/sponsorBGSpodscredits:Finding Lucinda is Distributed by The Bluegrass SituationProduced and mixed by Avery Hellman for Neanderthal Records LLCMusic by ISMAYArtwork by Avery HellmanHouston Recording —Recorded at Anderson FairSound Recordist: Rodrigo NinoProducer: Liz McBeeDirector: Joel FendelmanCo-Director & Cinematographer: Rose BushSpecial thanks to: Tim Leatherwood, Mick Hellman, Chuck Prophet, Don Fierro, Jacqueline Sabec, Rosemary Carroll, Lucinda Williams & Tom OverbyReferences:https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://repository.rice.edu/bitstreams/f46d1776-6b7d-4bba-9e16-f4d70234d003/download&ved=2ahUKEwja_fX6yvmNAxVJs1YBHUUaIyMQFnoECBcQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1hKyfGMJRk2_0t4lVFp_DMhttps://folkways.si.edu/folkways-records/smithsonianhttp://www.andersonfairthemovie.com/https://folklife.si.edu/legacy-honorees/moses-asch/smithsonianDon’t Tell Anybody the Secrets I Told You by Lucinda Williamshttps://www.villagevoice.com/interview-lucinda-williams-on-getting-paid-250-for-her-first-record-mad-men-and-her-favorite-place-in-new-york-city/“Lyle Lovett Goes Back to His Beginnings” The Boston Globe, November 4th 2012“Griffith Honors Songs that Shaped Her Career” The San Francisco Examiner, July 19th 1998

Ismay travels from Texas to Mississippi, to visit the studio where Lucinda Williams made her first record. There, Ismay interviews Wolf Stephenson, who was the engineer that day in 1978, to learn about what happened during the session and whether Lucinda was confident through that initial challenge of recording. They discuss what results when artists get rejected and what keeps certain artists moving forward in spite of various roadblocks. Stephenson oversaw the development of Malaco Records, which produced R&B, soul, and gospel hits. Elsewhere in the episode, Ismay also takes time to visit the stretch of country between Austin, Texas and Jackson, Mississippi in order to understand the landscape that informed Lucinda's work.

In the most exciting moment of the road trip thus far, Ismay hears from interviewee Wolf Stephenson that there's some archival material he wants to share from the concrete tape vault. After sitting on the shelf for 40 years, Wolf has finally brought three boxes down to review. He finds that there is something mysterious and unexpected in the third box, so Wolf and Ismay try to get to the bottom of what in the world this mystery box contains. This piece of never before heard material gives Ismay insight into Lucinda's development, and the choices she made as a creative person. But most importantly, discovering this treasure gives Ismay an opportunity to see themself in a way they never have before.

Ismay drives to Nashville to share the incredible never-before-heard tape they found during their road trip journey with friend Buddy Miller. He has been known to have contributed essential parts to Lucinda's breakthrough, 'Car Wheels On A Gravel Road.' Ismay reviews the commonly told story about the making of this record, how fraught it was, and realizes that there actually is important history to uncover – history that reveals a more interesting and unexpected truth about why this record was so challenging to make. Ismay discusses Lucinda's history in L.A., where she met a critical collaborator Gurf Morlix and subsequently made her albums 'Sweet Old World' and 'Lucinda Williams.'Interested in sponsoring us? Contact BGS: https://bit.ly/SponsorBGSPodsFinding Lucinda is Distributed by The Bluegrass SituationProduced and mixed by Avery Hellman for Neanderthal Records LLCMusic by ISMAYArtwork by Avery HellmanNashville Recording —Recorded at Hummingbird Hill StudioSound Recordist: Rodrigo NinoProducer: Liz McBeeDirector: Joel FendelmanCo-Director & Cinematographer: Rose BushSpecial thanks to: Mick Hellman, Chuck Prophet, Jonathan McHugh, Sydney Lane, Don Fierro, Jacqueline Sabec, Rosemary Carroll, Lucinda Williams & Tom Overbyreferences:Working with Lucinda Williams - Gurf Morlix from Otis Gibbs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_x-fBaD2cwThe Working Songwriter podcast - Lucinda Williams from Joe Pug: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ7ONKzCeFI&t=2372shttps://web.archive.org/web/20160603134220/http://nodepression.com/article/buddy-miller-disquisition-centrality-love-and-faith-music-buddy-miller-and-several-otherhttp://famouspalomino.com/https://historicplacesla.lacity.org/report/685475f1-055c-4096-bcdf-8ae69f32cb71https://trouserpress.com/reviews/lucinda-williams/Don’t Tell Anybody the Secrets I Told You by Lucinda Williams

Ismay travels across Nashville to the Station Inn to meet with legendary folk singer-songwriter Mary Gauthier. This episode of Finding Lucinda is different from those in the past – rather than interviewing a character from Lucinda Williams' history, Ismay speaks to Mary because of their shared experiences as fans and devotees of Lucinda's music. Mary reveals that her most well known song was in fact directly derived from techniques Lucinda uses in her songwriting. This conversation turns out to be incredibly revelatory, as wisdom Mary imparts allows Ismay to discover that what they initially thought this journey was all about may in fact be completely upended. ----------------------------Finding Lucinda is out September 9th 2025Pre-order on Apple TV: https://tv.apple.com/us/movie/finding-lucinda/umc.cmc.ims4vnyo6ibk1v6hgmqhta8dwww.findinglucinda.com----------------------------Interested in sponsoring us? Contact BGS: https://bit.ly/SponsorBGSPods----------------------------Finding Lucinda is Distributed by The Bluegrass SituationProduced and mixed by Avery Hellman for Neanderthal Records LLCMusic by ISMAYArtwork by Avery HellmanNashville Recording: Recorded at The Station Inn Sound Recordist: Rodrigo NinoProducer: Liz McBeeDirector: Joel FendelmanCo-Director & Cinematographer: Rose BushSpecial thanks to: Mick Hellman, Chuck Prophet, Jonathan McHugh, Sydney Lane, Don Fierro, Jacqueline Sabec, Rosemary Carroll, Lucinda Williams & Tom Overby----------------------------Saved By a Song by Mary GauthierDon’t Tell Anybody the Secrets I Told You by Lucinda Williamshttps://stationinn.com/information/https://acousticguitar.com/mary-gauthier-helps-veterans-turn-stories-into-songs-on-rifles-and-rosary-beads/https://folkworks.org/article/folkworks-article-mary-gauthier/

Ismay wakes up the day after interviewing Mary Gauthier, to attend a live performance by Lucinda Williams at the Ryman Auditorium. In order to finish out their journey, Ismay hopes to interview Lucinda right before her show, and find a conclusion to this road trip. However, it turns out that due to unforeseen circumstances, this interview is no longer possible. So Ismay goes to attend the show anyways, and has to make a decision about whether to continue following Lucinda, or to move forward. Plus, Ismay meets up with engineer and producer for Car Wheels on a Gravel Road, Ray Kennedy.

For the finale of their road trip, Ismay finally gets to meet the center of this entire narrative – Lucinda Williams. Their goal is seeking guidance about what to do with their self doubt. Ismay discovers that Lucinda had one major difference in her origin story that is the key to understanding why she never gave up herself. Ismay and Lucinda also discuss items from the archives that Ismay has gathered along their route to Nashville. Ismay performs the song, "Spin," from the archives for her and is surprised by Lucinda's reaction.----------------------Finding Lucinda is out now! Watch on Apple TV:----------------------Interested in sponsoring us? Contact BGS: https://bit.ly/sponsorbgspods----------------------credits:Finding Lucinda is Distributed by The Bluegrass SituationProduced and mixed by Avery Hellman for Neanderthal Records LLCMusic by ISMAYNashville Recording —Recorded at The Room & Board StudioSound Recordist: Rodrigo NinoProducer: Liz McBeeDirector: Joel FendelmanCo-Director & Cinematographer: Rose BushSpecial thanks to: Siobhan Maher Kennedy, Ray Kennedy, Mick Hellman, Chuck Prophet, Jonathan McHugh, Sydney Lane, Don Fierro, Rebecca Jordan Williams, Jacqueline Sabec, Rosemary Carroll, Lucinda Williams & Tom Overbyreferences:https://www.poetryfoundation.org/articles/69003/the-long-goodbyeMaking a Poem by Miller Williams

After the conclusion of their journey, Ismay tours the nation with screenings of 'Finding Lucinda,' inviting local artists to play Lucinda Williams songs in the round. Following a show at Chico Women's Club in California, Ismay interviews Chuck Prophet, a celebrated musician who co-produced the film. The pair discuss the origins of the project, what surprised them about making this documentary, and how Lucinda has influenced their songwriting and careers. They also discuss Chuck's time opening for Lucinda in the early 2000s. credits:Finding Lucinda is Distributed by The Bluegrass SituationProduced and mixed by Avery Hellman for Neanderthal Records LLCMusic by ISMAYNashville Recording —Recorded at The Room & Board StudioSound Recordist: Rodrigo NinoProducer: Liz McBeeDirector: Joel FendelmanCo-Director & Cinematographer: Rose BushSpecial thanks to: Siobhan Maher Kennedy, Ray Kennedy, Mick Hellman, Chuck Prophet, Jonathan McHugh, Sydney Lane, Don Fierro, Rebecca Jordan Williams, Jacqueline Sabec, Rosemary Carroll, Lucinda Williams & Tom Overbyreferences:https://www.poetryfoundation.org/articles/69003/the-long-goodbyeMaking a Poem by Miller Williams

In this episode of the podcast, Ismay sits down with 'Finding Lucinda' director Joel Fendelman. They discuss how Joel approached the making of the documentary and concepts like developing the language of a film to build trust with the audience, the artist’s experience of not being where you thought you should be a certain age – including how to constructively confront that – and the idea of trusting others in collaborations. They also talk about how there is overlap in the craft of filmmaking and music-making, including ideas like contrasts and consistency. With roots in Miami, Austin, and New York City, Fendelman has written, produced, and directed a number of award-winning narrative and documentary films. An award-winning filmmaker, he is dedicated to telling stories that reveal the underlying connections between us all. His documentary 'Man on Fire' received an IDA Documentary Award and premiered nationally on PBS’s Independent Lens (2018–19 season). He went on to direct 'North Putnam,' which won the Indiana Spotlight Award at the Heartland International Film Festival. In 2016, his short film 'Game Night' premiered at the Tribeca Film Festival and won Best Super Short at the Savannah Film Festival. His second narrative feature, 'Remittance,' earned multiple festival awards, including Best Actress and Best Screenplay at the Brooklyn Film Festival, and is distributed worldwide. His debut feature, 'David' (2011), won the Ecumenical Prize at the Montreal World Film Festival. His most recent short film, 'The Spiritual Advisor,' is premiering at DOC NYC 2025 and is being distributed by Rolling Stone Films.Soundtrack out 11/7/25CD, Vinyl and Download: https://ismay.bandcamp.com/album/finding-lucinda-music-from-the-documentaryApple Music: https://music.apple.com/us/artist/ismay/1340597459Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/77sFDwywxshHFqKu6rVXIp?si=xlKBJrMMRFyvU0HYQ_F18QTickets to upcoming screenings in Boston, Brooklyn, Hudson NY, Providence RI and Chicago at www.findinglucinda.comWatch Finding Lucinda online: https://www.freestyledigitalmedia.tv/film/finding-lucinda/credits:Finding Lucinda is Distributed by The Bluegrass SituationProduced, recorded and mixed by Avery Hellman for Neanderthal Records LLCMusic by ISMAYSpecial thanks to: Rose Bush, Liz McBee, Mick Hellman, Jonathan McHugh, Sydney Lane, Jacqueline Sabec, Rosemary Carroll, Lucinda Williams & Tom Overby

In the feed today, we wanted to share a podcast that we think you’re going to love. It’s called American Songcatcher, an educational documentary-style podcast that preserves and connects the cultural heritage of American roots music through stories and song. Hosted by folk musician and musicologist Nicholas Edwards Williams, American Songcatcher weaves stories across the spectrum of Traditional music, to artists who shaped and played integral roles in different forms of Blues, Country, Jazz, Bluegrass, Western, Gospel, Old-Time and the Folk music that is derived from it all. On this episode of American Songcatcher, we’re proud to present the story behind the King of Western Swing, Bob Wills. One of the most influential and iconic bandleaders and musicians of the 1930’s-1950’s, Bob came from a humble life of a poor sharecropping family, and was deeply influenced by old time and breakdown fiddle through his Texas state champion family of fiddlers in his father and uncle. Bob also loved all the turn of the century and 1920’s black music, and this confluence of cultures would help him create the craze that became Western swing, and the details of his journey to get there will surprise you. Story by Brent Davis and Nicholas Edward Williams __ Support Educational Programming: ⁠Tax-Exempt Donations⁠ Join the⁠ Patreon Community⁠ One-time donations:⁠ Venmo⁠ or⁠ PayPal⁠ Follow ⁠American Songcatcher⁠ on ⁠Instagram⁠ Story Credits: Brent Davis - Research, Writing Nicholas Edward Williams - Production, research, writing editing, recording and distribution Homecoming: Reflections on Bob Wills and his Texas Playboys, 1915-1973, Charles R. Townsend. Country Music Hall of Fame Authentic Texas OW Mayo The Life and Times of Bob Wills Country Music, an Illustrated History, Dayton Duncan and Ken Burns. Country Music, a PBS documentary by Florentine Films, Ken Burns, director; Dayton Duncan, writer. OK History Life and Times of Bob Wills (TNN) Texas Monthly Birthplace of Western Swing The Country Music Pop-Up Book, by the staff of the Country Music Hall of Fame and Museum. The Hag: The Life, Times, and Music of Merle Haggard, Marc Elliot.