Isn’t it fun to be part of the in-crowd? Where you can connect with people who are of like minds and spirits, where everyone seems to be headed in the same direction? But what if you start having nagging questions as an insider that don’t seem to get resolved, and even worse, are met with disdain or fear from other members of your group? This can be a scary place for so many of us. For the purposes of our conversation today–we’re talking about when it happens in religious spaces. For years, singer/songwriter Derek Webb was very much on the “inside” of what was happening in Christendom as a top selling, award winning Christian artist, songwriter and worship leader. It took a few disruptions to his own life that sent him down the road to evaluating his faith, his beliefs and how he wanted to move forward with the new information he’d gained. Now, decidedly an “outsider” who tries to still take up space in the Christian zeitgeist to potentially model a different way of living, Derek has gone on to record solo albums and also work with artists that aren’t typical to Christian music–like drag queen Flamy Grant—with whom, incidentally, he attended the Gospel Music Dove Awards in 2023 (and who also had a number one Christian song pop up on the charts), with the intention of making people who are Christian and LGBTQ+IA feel less alone. In this episode, Jen and Derek compare their journeys as “peaceful disruptors,” what it cost them and what they gained in the process
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Thought-Provoking Quotes:
“So now here I am, 20 years [after going solo] and I'm spoiled into thinking that I can write songs about things no one else is writing songs about, and that's kind of my thing now.” - Derek Webb
“I'd been so obsessed on thinking about, obsessed on my language about God, that I forgot to apply it to the way I behave in the world, the way I treat other people, which is ethics. And I realized, 'Oh no, how did I miss that?' As I stand before you as the ringing symbol, the clanging gong when I've got all the right words and none of the love, none of the fruit.” - Derek Webb
“I had to rebuild at almost 40, I had to rebuild a whole life and reckon with the fallout, at least my part of the responsibility of some real hurt. I caused a lot of people who I love to hurt, the people I love more than anybody in the world. And it humbled me.” - Derek Webb
“Flamy Grant and Semler were not the first two queer artists to have number-one albums and singles on the Christian music charts. It has happened so many times over the years, but by people who are closeted and people who live in tremendous fear in that space because they know they will be immediately rejected, excluded, marginalized, out.” - Derek Webb
Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
Caedmon’s Call
Aaron Tate’s Website
Second Baptist Church
She Must and Shall Go Free - Album by Derek Webb
Essential Records
Third Day
Jars Of Clay
Plumb
The Prayer of Jabez
Wedding Dress by Derek Webb
Grace Point Church
The Jesus Hypothesis
Boys Will Be Girls Music Video
Grace Semler Baldridge
Flamy Grant Instagram
Drag Queen at Christian Music Awards Sparks Backlash (Newsweek Article)
Guest’s Links:
Derek’s Website - https://www.derekwebb.com/home
Derek’s Facebook - http://facebook.com/derekwebb
Derek’s Instagram - http://instagram.com/derekwebb
Derek’s TikTok - http://tiktok.com/@derekwwebb
Derek’s Twitter - http://twitter.com/derekwebb
Derek’s YouTube - http://youtube.com/user/derekwebb
Derek’s Patreon - http://patreon.com/derekwebb
Connect with Jen!
Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/
Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/
Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1
The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.
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For some reason when I play this episode, it's a meal planning episode by Emily Ley.
I'm a type 8 who lives with chronic pain/illness. Any advice?
wow! so powerful! Thank you.
Is it just me or was the song at the end cut off?
oh my gosh, I cannot tell you how good it feels to hear someone say what is in my head! and the question about which one I would be for a day - absolutely also a 3 for the exact same reasons.
Reiss Motivational Profile is a research-based assessment that is more thorough than Enneagram. Enneagram is much like a teen magazine quiz people take to guess their personality.
over the moon for this!
How do I access the podcast notes? I'm interested in Max Lucado's favorite commentary author'name.
Love love love u big Jen and Beth. Such a refreshing and real conversation...would not expect anything less from these 2:)
I just finished her book. Actually read through it twice. It is beyond heartening to see how she responds to adversity. I needed this with all my heart. Thank you Abby.
great podcast Jen!! Andy is amazing!
Thank you for this powerful message!
Wonderful. Thank you.
so good to hear from your kiddos
I really appreciate you and this podcast. But, I listened to and very much respect Matt Chandler's response to the horrible circumstances at his church. I wish that we could hold people accountable while being gracious.
Excellent episode!
At the 7:30 mark, the episode completely stops and I can't get it to resume. Anyone else having this issue?
I keep hearing a static clicking throughout the whole episode. I tried listening to something else to see if it was coming from my headphones and I'm not having this problem. Is anyone else having issues with the playback of this episode?
I am almost embarrassed and ashamed that of all of the amazing podcasts I have experienced on your channel, this is the one that has me sobbing. My mother is a 5ft nothing anorexic and my father a former athlete now 400lb obese man. My daddy was voluntold not to re-enlist into his special operations job in the military when I was in high school. This was not do to any problems with job performance. He was well decorated and I missed the majority of my childhood with him while he was deployed. This "reccomendation" was due to his inability to meet the weight requirements of what was then termed "The Fat Boy Program". Both my mother and father spun out into a deep depression after his "voluntary honorable discharge" (to reiterate this was based solely on weight according to the BMI which changes almost yearly according to statistical averages with no consideration to bone mass, muscle mass or irregular girth). Our home was subsequently foreclosed on. My father began over eating and poure
I tripped into you about 2 weeks ago when I stumbled across Of Mess and Moxie. I subsequently purchased 3 extra Audible credits(because who am I to pass up a good deal)and dove headlong into For The Love. I immediately began fan girl stalking you! I could not believe that there was any other person out there remotely like me. I often refer to myself as a recovering Southern Baptist. I have was ostrisized from the church for having the audacity to say things like, "listening to Renegade by Styxx on the way to Sunday School was a worshipful experience, that the term Son of God might be interpreted more fully as unique of God, and that the Bible while holy and important was not the final word. We are blessed with the holy trinity and should not turn the sculptures into an idol. God is still moving and still speaking! My love for Jesus has not waivered, but I have yet to find a body outside of this podcast that allows for the searching and questioning that the scriptures encourage. Thank