How Is That Legal?: Breaking Down Systemic Racism One Law at a Time

Erika K. Wilson is fighting back against racialized violence in civil courts! In Part Two of our conversation, she shares how she’s putting critical race theory into practice at UNC’s Critical Race Lawyering Clinic, why representing Black and Brown people is not the same as working through a race equity lens, and what happens when her clients push back against anti-blackness. Altogether, Professor Wilson demonstrates that the law cannot be at the center of dismantling white supremacy. If you haven’t already, listen to Part One of Kee’s conversation with Professor Wilson on the legal foundations of white supremacy. Guest: Erika K. Wilson (@Erika_K_Wilson) is a Professor of Law, the Wade Edwards Distinguished Scholar and Thomas Willis Lambeth Distinguished Chair in Public Policy at the UNC School of Law. She directs the Critical Race Lawyering Clinic.If you enjoy this show and want to help fight poverty and injustice, consider making a donation to Community Legal Services today! You can also follow us on Twitter @CLSphila to stay connected.How Is That Legal is a podcast from Community Legal Services of Philadelphia and Rowhome Productions. Jake Nussbaum is our Producer and Editor. Executive Producers are Alex Lewis and John Myers. Special thanks to Caitlin Nagel, Zakya Hall, and Farwa Zaidi. Music provided by Blue Dot Sessions.Support the show

Professor Erika K. Wilson lays out the legal foundations of white supremacy, breaking down how the law has distributed power and resources in favor of white people over everyone else. Plus, she brings the receipts to prove it! If you’ve ever wondered how systemic racism has persisted after the courts struck down Black Codes and Jim Crow laws, this is a conversation you don’t want to miss.This episode is part I of the conversation with Professor Wilson. In part II, you’ll learn how civil courts produce racialized violence and how Professor Wilson’s Critical Race Lawyering Clinic applies critical race theory to legal aid. Guest:Erika K. Wilson (@Erika_K_Wilson) is a Professor of Law, the Wade Edwards Distinguished Scholar and Thomas Willis Lambeth Distinguished Chair in Public Policy at the UNC School of Law. She also directs the Critical Race Lawyering Clinic at UNC.If you enjoy this show and want to help fight poverty and injustice, consider making a donation to Community Legal Services today! You can also follow us on Twitter @CLSphila to stay connected.How Is That Legal is a podcast from Community Legal Services of Philadelphia and Rowhome Productions. Jake Nussbaum is our Producer and Editor. Executive Producers are Alex Lewis and John Myers. Special thanks to Caitlin Nagel, Zakya Hall, and Farwa Zaidi. Music provided by Blue Dot Sessions.Support the show

Welcome to Pennsylvania’s ChildLine Registry… where parents can be labeled as child abusers for life with no right to a hearing. In 2004, Angela West and six coworkers were placed on the ChildLine Registry after a child at their job developed unexplained bruising. Ms. West fought to clear her name for 18 years before finally winning her appeal, but she could not get living wage jobs in her field or volunteer at her grandchildren’s schools during that time. Angela West and CLS Attorney Tracie Johnson discuss the racialized harm of Pennsylvania’s ChildLine Registry and imagine better ways to protect children from abuse and neglect. Trigger Warning:  This conversation pertains to the topic of child abuse, and may not be appropriate for young people.Guests: Tracie Johnson is the lead Staff Attorney for the Youth Justice Project at Community Legal Services where she connects young people ages 16-24 to free legal help with criminal records, public benefits, housing, debt, and their families.Angela West works in direct support for men and women with mental health challenges. As an advocate, Ms. West is the lead petitioner in CLS’s ChildLine Registry lawsuit A.W. v. Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. If you enjoy this show and want to help fight poverty and injustice, consider making a donation to Community Legal Services today! You can also follow us on Twitter @CLSphila to stay connected.How Is That Legal is a podcast from Community Legal Services of Philadelphia and Rowhome Productions. Jake Nussbaum is our Producer and Editor. Executive Producers are Alex Lewis and John Myers. Special thanks to Caitlin Nagel, Zakya Hall, and Farwa Zaidi. Music provided by Blue Dot Sessions.Support the show

Nearly 5 million people living in Appalachia are Black and Brown,  but Appalachians have been reduced to stereotypes of white coal miners in the mainstream media. Attorney Loree Stark breaks down what’s really going on in Appalachia, including how systemic inequity, exploitation of the labor force, disability, housing instability, and predatory lending all intersect in this unique part of the country. Loree then shares how mutual aid groups and others in the community are building coalitions and sharing stories to make change.Guest: Loree Stark (@loreestark), is a Staff Attorney at the Human Rights Defense Center. Prior to joining HRDC, she worked for the American Civil Liberties Union of West Virginia, Mountain State Justice, and the Appalachian Research and Defense Fund of Kentucky. If you enjoy this show and want to help fight poverty and injustice, consider making a donation to Community Legal Services today! You can also follow us on Twitter @CLSphila to stay connected.How Is That Legal is a podcast from Community Legal Services of Philadelphia and Rowhome Productions. Jake Nussbaum is our Producer and Editor. Executive Producers are Alex Lewis and John Myers. Special thanks to Caitlin Nagel, Zakya Hall, and Farwa Zaidi. Music provided by Blue Dot Sessions.Support the show

Educators can legally hit students at school in 19 states, but school-based violence is forcing young people with marginalized identities out of school everywhere. Ashley Sawyer joins us to discuss the legacy of racial discrimination in education policy and systems of school-based violence. She lays out how the school-to-prison pipeline, pushout, sexual harassment, and corporal punishment force young people with marginalized identities out of school, and she calls attention to the demands of Black and Latina girls who are organizing to create safe, healing, and supportive schools. Finally, Ashley urges policymakers to make radical investments in young people, schools, families, and communities to address the root causes of violence and harm. Trigger Warning: Ashley shares graphic stories about what's happening to young people in schools. This conversation also includes topics that may not be appropriate for young children.Guest: Ashley Sawyer (@ACSawyerJustice) is a Senior Staff Attorney on the Opportunity to Lead (Education) team at Advancement Project. Ashley’s life work is situated where education and the criminal justice system collide, and she has previously served at Girls for Gender Equity, Youth Represent, and the Education Law Center. If you enjoy this show and want to help fight poverty and injustice, consider making a donation to Community Legal Services today! You can also follow us on Twitter @CLSphila to stay connected.How Is That Legal is a podcast from Community Legal Services of Philadelphia and Rowhome Productions. Jake Nussbaum is our Producer and Editor. Executive Producers are Alex Lewis and John Myers. Special thanks to Caitlin Nagel, Zakya Hall, and Farwa Zaidi. Music provided by Blue Dot Sessions.Support the show

Black families pay higher property taxes than white families each year, and these unfairly high bills are helping to force Black people out of cities. Montgomery Wilson breaks down in great detail how Black homeowners end up paying more than their white counterparts in property taxes and how tax assessments are systematically inaccurate in Black and low income communities. He also shares what cities can do to solve this massive injustice and keep people in their homes. After this interview, you’ll never hear the words property tax assessment the same way again. Guest: Montgomery Wilson is a senior attorney with CLS’s Consumer Housing Unit.  His practice focuses largely on municipal tax foreclosure & mortgage foreclosure defense in both state and federal court. He has also worked extensively with local community organizations and the City of Philadelphia to aid Philadelphia homeowners faced with real estate tax lien foreclosures. If you enjoy this show and want to help fight poverty and injustice, consider making a donation to Community Legal Services today! You can also follow us on Twitter @CLSphila to stay connected.How Is That Legal is a podcast from Community Legal Services of Philadelphia and Rowhome Productions. Jake Nussbaum is our Producer and Editor. Executive Producers are Alex Lewis and John Myers. Special thanks to Caitlin Nagel, Zakya Hall, and Farwa Zaidi. Music provided by Blue Dot Sessions.Support the show

One in four adults in the United States has a disability. Yet, disability is often an afterthought for policymakers. Lauren DeBruicker examines how disability and race intersect within the civil legal system and the impact of systemic racism on Black and Brown people with disabilities. Lauren also recounts the rich history of activism in the disability justice movement and what can be done to expand legal protections for disabled people.Guest: Lauren DeBruicker is an Assistant U.S. Attorney in the Eastern District of Pennsylvania. As the U.S. Attorney’s Office’s Deputy Civil Chief for Civil Rights, Lauren oversees the office’s investigation and prosecution of violations of federal civil rights laws, such as the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the Fair Housing Act, and the Americans with Disabilities Act. Lauren is an active member of the disability community and an advocate for access and independent living in the region. If you enjoy this show and want to help fight poverty and injustice, consider making a donation to Community Legal Services today! You can also follow us on Twitter @CLSphila to stay connected.How Is That Legal is a podcast from Community Legal Services of Philadelphia and Rowhome Productions. Jake Nussbaum is our Producer and Editor. Executive Producers are Alex Lewis and John Myers. Special thanks to Caitlin Nagel, Zakya Hall, and Farwa Zaidi. Music provided by Blue Dot Sessions.Support the show

Sofia Ali-Khan breaks down the forced migration of Black and Brown people in every corner of this country. Her new book, A Good Country: My Life in Twelve Towns and the Devastating Battle for a White America, recounts government efforts to preserve a white center in each of the places she’s lived, worked, and worshiped. Sofia also discusses her time as a legal aid attorney at Community Legal Services and why she believes that learning our true history is the very first step in achieving the change we seek. Guest: Sofia Ali-Khan (Sofia_alikhan) is a social justice lawyer turned writer. She has worked for Community Legal Services of Philadelphia, Prairie State Legal Services in Illinois, and the American Bar Association. Sofia's writing at the intersection of politics, race, history, and Muslim America has appeared in the Los Angeles Times, Time, the Chicago Tribune, Tricycle Magazine, and on several other platforms.If you enjoy this show and want to help fight poverty and injustice, consider making a donation to Community Legal Services today! You can also follow us on Twitter @CLSphila to stay connected.How Is That Legal is a podcast from Community Legal Services of Philadelphia and Rowhome Productions. Jake Nussbaum is our Producer and Editor. Executive Producers are Alex Lewis and John Myers. Special thanks to Caitlin Nagel, Zakya Hall, and Farwa Zaidi. Music provided by Blue Dot Sessions.Support the show

Pennsylvania State Senator Nikil Saval breaks down why racism is the bedrock of America’s housing system and how anti-Black attitudes led the federal government to neglect affordable housing for decades. Senator Saval illustrates how movements can build power through coalition-building and “making an ask,” and he explains how initiatives like a Homes Guarantee, Whole-Home Repairs, and eviction record sealing would help address racial inequity in housing.Guests: Nikil Saval (@SenatorSaval) represents Pennsylvania’s first district in the State Senate. Prior to elected office, Senator Saval was an organizer with UNITE HERE and the Bernie Sanders campaign, as well as a journalist for the New York Times, The New Yorker, and n+1.If you enjoy this show and want to help fight poverty and injustice, consider making a donation to Community Legal Services today! You can also follow us on Twitter @CLSphila to stay connected.How Is That Legal is a podcast from Community Legal Services of Philadelphia and Rowhome Productions. Jake Nussbaum is our Producer and Editor. Executive Producers are Alex Lewis and John Myers. Special thanks to Caitlin Nagel, Zakya Hall, and Farwa Zaidi. Music provided by Blue Dot Sessions.Support the show

How Is That Legal is back and better than ever in Season 2! Kee Tobar, Chief Equity and Inclusion Officer of Community Legal Services of Philadelphia, invites experts from a wide range of backgrounds to break down examples of systemic racism in the law and policy. By the end of each episode, you’ll understand the forces behind everyday injustices that make us ask, “How in the world is that legal?” Airing weekly on Wednesdays wherever you get your podcasts.If you enjoy this show and want to help fight poverty and injustice, consider making a donation to Community Legal Services today! You can also follow us on all social media @CLSphila to stay connected.How Is that Legal is produced by Rowhome Productions. Jake Nussbaum is our Producer and Editor. Executive Producers are Alex Lewis and John Myers. Special thanks to Caitlin Nagel, Zakya Hall, and Farwa Zaidi. Music provided by Blue Dot Sessions.Support the show

In this special episode of How Is That Legal, Kee invites her friend and CLS colleague Tracie Johnson to reflect on lessons learned this season and what else needs to be explored next season. Kee and Tracie both share shocking stories that made them ask, “How in the world is that legal?” and talk about the importance of centering people who are impacted by inequity when creating solutions. See you next season!Guest: Tracie Johnson is the lead staff attorney for the Youth Justice Project at Community Legal Services. She now works to create career pathways for women and girls of color who face barriers to employment and higher education because of their juvenile and adult criminal records.If you enjoy this show and want to help fight poverty and injustice, consider making a donation to Community Legal Services today! You can also follow us on Twitter @CLSphila to stay connected.How Is That Legal is a podcast from Community Legal Services of Philadelphia and Rowhome Productions. Jake Nussbaum is our Producer and Editor. Executive Producers are Alex Lewis and John Myers. Special thanks to Caitlin Nagel, Zakya Hall, and Molly Pollak. Music provided by Blue Dot Sessions.Support the show

None of us can afford climate change, but the costs are even higher for Black and Brown people and communities, especially for those who can’t afford heating or cooling. As the planet gets hotter, we must address climate change while also making sure that people can afford to keep their homes comfortable.  It’s not too late, but if we don’t act soon, we will pay one way or another. Bishop Dwayne Royster and Kintéshia Scott explain why environment vs. energy affordability is a false narrative, how systems of injustice are interconnected, and what we must do to make sure no one gets left behind in the transition to renewable energy. Guests: Bishop Dwayne Royster (@ddroyster) is the Executive Director of POWER, an interfaith coalition of activists, organizers and community advocates in Pennsylvania in their commitment to racial and economic justice on a livable planet. As a pastor, political activist, and radio show host, Bishop Royster’s work is fueled by deep faith and passionate commitment to bringing about social justice. Kintéshia Scott (@KinteshiaScott) is a Staff Attorney in the Energy Unit at Community Legal Services. Kintéshia advocates for low-income Philadelphians to have access to affordable water, heat, and electricity in their homes through direct legal representation and policy advocacy.If you enjoy this show and want to help fight poverty and injustice, consider making a donation to Community Legal Services today! You can also follow us on Twitter @CLSphila to stay connected.How Is That Legal is a podcast from Community Legal Services of Philadelphia and Rowhome Productions. Jake Nussbaum is our Producer and Editor. Executive Producers are Alex Lewis and John Myers. Special thanks to Caitlin Nagel, Zakya Hall, and Molly Pollak. Music provided by Blue Dot Sessions.Support the show

Welcome to America…. where low-income families risk losing their homes if a loved one lives in a nursing home or needs help with personal care at home. That’s right. If a Medicaid recipient receives long-term care, the state can recover costs from their estate after they pass away. Stephanie Altman from the Shriver Center on Poverty Law joins us to discuss Medicaid estate recovery. She breaks down who actually receives Medicaid, why estate recovery is a misleading name for taking the very few assets Medicaid patients leave behind, and the racist stereotypes that led to its creation in the nineties.Guest: Stephanie Altman (@StephanieAltma2) is the Director of Healthcare Justice and Senior Director of Policy at the Shriver Center on Poverty Law. She directs the Shriver Center’s work to uncover systemic inequities and create new pathways for opportunity through legislation and systemic changes. She also directs the organization’s healthcare advocacy, representing clients in individual and class actions related to healthcare equity and advocating for accessible healthcare through administrative and legislative forums. If you enjoy this show and want to help fight poverty and injustice, consider making a donation to Community Legal Services today! You can also follow us on Twitter @CLSphila to stay connected.How Is That Legal is a podcast from Community Legal Services of Philadelphia and Rowhome Productions. Jake Nussbaum is our Producer and Editor. Executive Producers are Alex Lewis and John Myers. Special thanks to Caitlin Nagel, Zakya Hall, and Molly Pollak. Music provided by Blue Dot Sessions.Support the show

For many Black and Brown homeowners, their dream of homeownership disintegrates into a uniquely American nightmare designed to extract wealth and lock them out of economic mobility. Attorney Rachel Gallegos and Councilmember Katherine Gilmore Richardson join us to discuss racial disparities in homeownership, the bureaucratic saga that unfolds when homeowners pass away, and changes needed to preserve Black and Brown intergenerational wealth. Councilmember Gilmore Richardson also shares her own family’s struggle to untangle their titles and save their family homes. Guests: Rachel Gallegos (@RKG80) is a Senior Staff Attorney in the Homeownership and Consumer Rights Unit at Community Legal Services of Philadelphia. Prior to joining CLS, Ms. Gallegos was a law clerk to the Honorable John T. McNeill, III, in the Camden County Superior Court and the Honorable Annette M. Rizzo (Ret.) in the Philadelphia Court of Common Pleas.Katherine Gilmore Richardson (@CouncilwomanKGR) is serving her first term as Councilmember At-Large for the City of Philadelphia. She is the youngest woman ever elected citywide and the youngest African American woman ever elected to the Philadelphia City Council. Councilmember Gilmore Richardson successfully championed legislation to require funeral homes to provide a guide to heirs so they understand their rights and how to keep their family home. If you enjoy this show and want to help fight poverty and injustice, consider making a donation to Community Legal Services today! You can also follow us on Twitter @CLSphila to stay connected. How Is That Legal is a podcast from Community Legal Services of Philadelphia and Rowhome Productions. Jake Nussbaum is our Producer and Editor. Executive Producers are Alex Lewis and John Myers. Special thanks to Caitlin Nagel, Zakya Hall, and Molly Pollak. Music provided by Blue Dot Sessions.Support the show

America’s housing system is designed to keep Black women locked out. But eviction records don’t tell the whole story. Rasheedah Phillips joins us to discuss the national housing crisis and how systemic racism is embedded in housing policy. She breaks down racial discrimination in rental housing, how eviction records can haunt tenants for life, even if they haven’t actually been evicted, and the opaque nature of tenant screening reports. With extensive local and national expertise, Rasheedah examines how and why Black women most often bear the brunt of the many structural inequities in the rental housing market. To solve this crisis, she calls on advocates to center the leadership of the people who are most impacted and then funnel resources to their efforts. Guest: Rasheedah Phillips (@RPhillipsBQF) is Director of Housing at PolicyLink, a national research and action institute advancing racial and economic equity. Rasheedah is also an interdisciplinary afrofuturist artist and cultural producer who has exhibited and performed work globally.If you enjoy this show and want to help fight poverty and injustice, consider making a donation to Community Legal Services today! You can also follow us on Twitter @CLSphila to stay connected. How Is That Legal is a podcast from Community Legal Services of Philadelphia and Rowhome Productions. Jake Nussbaum is our Producer and Editor. Executive Producers are Alex Lewis and John Myers. Special thanks to Caitlin Nagel, Zakya Hall, and Molly Pollak. Music provided by Blue Dot Sessions.Support the show

Alan Dettlaff began his career in social work as a child welfare investigator. So how did he reach the conclusion that social workers must refuse to cooperate with the system altogether? Well, he tried to reduce racial disproportionality within child welfare and foster care for years. In this episode, Dr. Dettlaff shares his research on the unique harms that the family policing system imposes on Black, Latine, immigrant, and LGBTQ+ families, and he breaks down the carceral logic that drives the state to remove children from their parents. Finally, he lays out specific ways policymakers can shift power and resources to families. Guest: Alan Dettlaff (@AlanDettlaff) is Dean of the Graduate College of Social Work at the University of Houston. Dr. Dettlaff’s work focuses on addressing and eliminating the impacts of structural and institutional racism on Black children and other children of color impacted by child welfare system intervention. If you enjoy this show and want to help fight poverty and injustice, consider making a donation to Community Legal Services today! You can also follow us on Twitter @CLSphila to stay connected. How Is That Legal is a podcast from Community Legal Services of Philadelphia and Rowhome Productions. Jake Nussbaum is our Producer and Editor. Executive Producers are Alex Lewis and John Myers. Special thanks to Caitlin Nagel, Zakya Hall, and Molly Pollak. Music provided by Blue Dot Sessions.Support the show

More than half of Black children experience a child welfare investigation by their eighteenth birthday– almost twice the prevalence for white children. April Lee knows the family surveillance system well. More than eight  years ago, April’s three children were removed from her home. Among her family, friends, and community, most people have been through the child welfare system as parents, children, or oftentimes both. Now, she’s using her lived experience to help Black and Brown parents reunite with their children and ultimately end the trauma of family separation. April shares the obstacles parents must overcome to avoid losing their children forever and why she believes child welfare cannot meet its own standard of safety for children. Guest: April Lee (@AprilLee215) is the Director of Client Voice at Community Legal Services of Philadelphia. If you enjoy this show and want to help fight poverty and injustice, consider making a donation to Community Legal Services today! You can also follow us on Twitter @CLSphila to stay connected. How Is That Legal is a podcast from Community Legal Services of Philadelphia and Rowhome Productions. Jake Nussbaum is our Producer and Editor. Executive Producers are Alex Lewis and John Myers. Special thanks to Caitlin Nagel, Zakya Hall, and Molly Pollak. Music provided by Blue Dot Sessions.Support the show

More than one in ten Black children in America will be forcibly separated from their parents and placed in foster care by the time they reach age eighteen. Professor Dorothy Roberts joins us to discuss the racialized history of parenting, family autonomy, and the child welfare system. From the role of slavery in framing the Black mother to disastrous 90s legislation rooted in racial stereotypes, Professor Roberts makes the case that child welfare was designed to punish the most disenfranchised communities instead of to protect children. After over thirty years of research, Roberts concludes that abolition is the only way to end the trauma caused by what she calls family policing. Guest: Dorothy Roberts (@DorothyERoberts) is the George A. Weiss University Professor of Law and Sociology, the Raymond Pace and Sadie Tanner Mossell Alexander Professor of Civil Rights, and a professor of Africana Studies at the University of Pennsylvania. Her newest book, Torn Apart: How the Child Welfare System Destroys Black Families– and How Abolition Can Build a Safer World is available today. If you enjoy this show and want to help fight poverty and injustice, consider making a donation to Community Legal Services today! You can also follow us on Twitter @CLSphila to stay connected. Support the show

Kee Tobar and expert guests break down examples of systemic racism in the law and policy. By the end of each episode, you’ll understand the forces behind everyday injustices that make us ask, “How in the world is that legal?” In our first season, How Is That Legal will examine racial disparities in the child welfare system, housing discrimination, Medicaid estate recovery, utility shutoffs, and more.  If you enjoy this show and want to help fight poverty and injustice, consider making a donation to Community Legal Services today! You can also follow us on Twitter @CLSphila to stay connected. How Is That Legal is a podcast from Community Legal Services of Philadelphia and Rowhome Productions. Jake Nussbaum is our Producer and Editor. Executive Producers are Alex Lewis and John Myers. Special thanks to Caitlin Nagel, Zakya Hall, and Molly Pollak. Music provided by Blue Dot Sessions.Support the show

How many times have you encountered an injustice that shocked you so much that you wondered, “How in the world could this possibly be legal?” Well, that’s exactly why we at Community Legal Services of Philadelphia created our new podcast, How Is That Legal. With help from our host, CLS Chief Equity and Inclusion Officer Kee Tobar, expert guests will break down specific examples of systemic racism in the law and policy and share how we can all work together to build a future free of injustice. As a queer Black woman from a working class background, native southerner, and legal aid attorney, Kee brings a grounded perspective and fierce commitment to dismantling legalized racism to every interview. Airing weekly on Wednesdays. If you enjoy this show and want to help fight poverty and injustice, consider making a donation to Community Legal Services today! You can also follow us on Twitter @CLSphila to stay connected.How Is that Legal is produced by Rowhome Productions. Jake Nussbaum is our Producer and Editor. Executive Producers are Alex Lewis and John Myers. Special thanks to Caitlin Nagel, Zakya Hall, and Molly Pollak. Music provided by Blue Dot Sessions.Support the show