In Retrospect with Susie Banikarim and Jessica Bennett

Robin Givens’ honesty about her violent marriage to Mike Tyson led to a nasty backlash. In the aftermath of that explosive interview with Barbara Walters, Givens was portrayed as an evil gold digger who, as the tabloids put it, had become the “most hated woman in America.” But Givens endured, filing for divorce and rebuilding her life despite the vitriol. In this episode, Susie and Jess examine that cruel public reaction, what it teaches us about America’s misunderstanding of domestic violence at that time and the role that race played in it all. Guest: Salamishah Tillet, Pulitzer Prize-winning critic and professor of Africana Studies and Creative Writing at Rutgers University FOR MORE: ‘Boomerang’ at 30: Think of It as the Robin Givens Rom-Com (New York Times, 2022) Robin Givens on Domestic Violence: 'Why I Stayed' (Time, 2014) Ms. Magazine Cover: Battered Wives (1976) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In 1988, the actress Robin Givens and her husband Mike Tyson, the heavyweight champion of the world, gave a television interview to Barbara Walters addressing persistent tabloid rumors that their marriage was violent. In a stunningly honest moment, Givens admitted, with Tyson by her side, that she was tormented by her husband's physical abuse. In this episode, Susie and Jess revisit that interview, the vicious public response and what it revealed about what it means to be a victim in America. FOR MORE: Mike Tyson And Robin Givens Are Interviewed Amid Rumors (ABC News) Robin's Sad Song (People, 1988) The Woman America Loves To Hate (Sun Sentinel, 1988) Through the Storm: Robin Givens (Essence, 2020) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The men in the office called them “Dollies,” and they had had enough. In 1970, 46 women who were not allowed to be writers sued Newsweek magazine for gender discrimination – paving the way for generations of women journalists to follow. Jess reflects on discovering that story when she was a young staffer at Newsweek four decades later, and how it led to her first book, Feminist Fight Club, which was inspired by those women. Plus, Susie asks what’s changed for women reporters today.  FOR MORE:  Are We There Yet? Forty Years Later, Revisiting a Landmark Sex Discrimination Suit (Jessica Bennett, Jesse Ellison and Sarah Ball, Newsweek, 2012) The Good Girls Revolt: How the Women of Newsweek Sued their Bosses and Changed the Workplace (Book by Lynn Povich) Good Girls Revolt (Amazon TV series based on the book) Feminist Fight Club: A Survival Manual for a Sexist Workplace (Book by Jessica Bennett) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In Part 1, Jess and Susie dissected how a salacious Newsweek report about women’s likelihood of getting married sparked a national panic. Here they share their own views on marriage – and unpack what we’d make of that silly story today. (If you haven’t listened to Pt 1, we recommend starting there!) Guests: Sharon Attia, associate producer for IN RETROSPECT and resident young millennial FOR MORE: Revisiting Newsweek’s ‘More Likely To Be Killed By a Terrorist Than Marry’ Story (The Atlantic, 2016) ‘I Don’t’: The Case Against Marriage (Jessica Bennett and Jesse Ellison, Newsweek, 2010) Modern Love: Missing the Love Boat (Jessica Bennett, NY Times, 2012) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It was a 1986 cover story with a claim that spread like wildfire: A single woman over 40 was “more likely to be killed by a terrorist” than to get married. Jess and Susie unravel the origin of that salacious report — later retracted — and dissect how such a line went from reporter’s notebook to reference point in films such as “Sleepless in Seattle” and “When Harry Met Sally.” Plus: How that Newsweek story inspired Susan Faludi to write her blockbuster feminist classic, Backlash. Guests: E. Jean Carroll, journalist, longtime Elle advice columnist and author of “What Do We Need Men For?”  Susan Douglas, professor of media studies at the University of Michigan and author of “Enlightened Sexism” FOR MORE: Single, Female, and Desperate No More (NY Times, 2006) Revisiting Newsweek’s ‘More Likely To Be Killed By a Terrorist’ Story (The Atlantic, 2016) Backlash: The Undeclared War Against American Women by Susan Faludi (1991) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A recent Republican debate stirred up an age-old discussion about high heels: Who is allowed to wear them, how high they can be, and what they can tell us about gender politics in 2023. In this episode, Jess & Susie unravel the long history of high-heeled shoes (originally designed for men!) and how they’ve been used as a political insult and weapon. FOR MORE: Nikki Haley, Ron DeSantis, and Those Stilettos (Jessica Bennett, The New York Times) Penis Politics, a podcast from The Waves (Slate) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Mistakes? We’ve made a few. In the spirit of IN RETROSPECT, Susie and Jess share some of their professional regrets—from Susie’s season working on the reality show “Wife Swap” to a sexual harassment story Jess still thinks about. FOR MORE: Heidi Mae’s TikTok about appearing on "Wife Swap" See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Amy Fisher would go to prison for shooting Mary Jo Buttafuoco, the wife of her much older “boyfriend” Joey – but that wouldn’t be the end of the story. The media frenzy surrounding her would continue, and spawn three TV movies about her infamous crime. In this episode, Susie and Jess delve into Amy’s attempts to move on, where she is today, and dissect how that trope – the “lolita” – is used to paint girls as precocious and seductive. Guests: Amy Pagnozzi, former and longtime New York Post columnist who covered the Amy Fisher trial FOR MORE: Which of Those Three Amy Fisher TV Movies Was the Best—And Which Was the Trashiest? (Esquire, 2016) The troubling legacy of the Lolita story, 60 years on (BBC, 2022) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In 1992, Amy Fisher, a teen girl from Long Island became a tabloid sensation almost overnight – when she shot Mary Jo Buttafuoco, the wife of her much older “boyfriend” Joey Buttafuoco. Within days, the New York Daily News would splash a picture of Amy across its front page with a headline that would follow her forever: The Long Island Lolita. In this episode, Susie and Jess interrogate the way Amy Fisher was covered and examine why her story gripped the nation. Guests: Amy Pagnozzi, former and longtime New York Post columnist who covered the Amy Fisher trial FOR MORE: Long Island Lolita (Daily News, 1992) Treachery in the Suburbs (People, 1992) Inside Edition Flashback: Amy Fisher Sentencing (YouTube) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The princess of pop's much anticipated memoir, “The Woman In Me,” is finally out. This week, Jess and Susie speed-read it and share their thoughts on the woman whose life is perhaps the ultimate case of "in retrospect."See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Can you understand U.S. cultural history without understanding Axe Body Spray? Listener, you cannot. In this mini-episode, Jess and Susie trace the scent that infiltrated school hallways and telegraphed wannabe masculinity for a generation of Y2K kids. Featuring a special appearance by Jess’s husband.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

So Pacey lost his virginity to his high school English teacher. But what do we… call that? Was it a tryst? An affair? An assault? Jess & Susie dive into the linguistic acrobatics of how America talked about statutory rape in the 90s – and delve into the the true story that was playing out at the time, that of Seattle teacher (and convicted rapist) Mary Kay Letourneau. Guests: Rosie Bancroft, Jess’s middle school pal and current middle school mental health counselor FOR MORE: How the Media Turned Child Rape Into a ‘Tryst’ (Rolling Stone) America’s confused obsession with Mary Kay Letourneau (Washington Post) ‘In Retrospect’ – The Playlist (Aren’t you dying to hear the Dawson’s theme song?) (Spotify) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It was 1998 and teenage Jessica was crammed onto the couch in the basement of a friend’s house in Seattle, swooning over the hot-and-heavy “love affair” between Pacey and Tamara on “Dawson’s Creek.” The only thing: Pacey was 15, and Tamara – aka Miss Jacobs – was his 38-year-old high school English teacher. Ew? Guests: Rosie Bancroft, Jess’s middle school pal and current middle school mental health counselor FOR MORE: ‘Dawson’s Creek’ at 20: Inside the Teen Drama’s Deepest Secrets (Hollywood Reporter) Dawson’s Creek and That Troubling Storyline (Medium) ‘In Retrospect’ – The Playlist (Aren’t you dying to hear the Dawson’s theme song?) (Spotify) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It’s “problematic.” In this mini episode, Jess rants about her dislike of this overly simplistic label (used to describe everything from people to paint colors), and Susie asks her why, if that’s the case, she can’t seem to stop using it. FOR MORE: If Everything Is ‘Trauma,’ Is Anything? (NY Times) I Was Wrong About Trigger Warnings (The Atlantic)  What If Calling People Out, We Called Them In? (NY Times) The Problem With the Word 'Problematic’ (The Atlantic) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In 1988, Oprah Winfrey revealed on her hugely popular talk show that she’d shed 67 pounds, which she illustrated to her audience by wheeling out a little red wagon full of exactly that much animal fat. That show, the highest-rated of her 25-year run, would kickstart a cycle of speculation about this wildly successful woman’s body that would endure for decades. In this episode, Susie and Jess explore why Oprah’s weight struggles have been the subject of so much fascination, her recent special that touches on that scrutiny, the rise of Ozempic and the pressure women feel to be perfect. FOR MORE: Oprah Daily’s The State of Weight Special (Oprah Daily) Making Oprah podcast (WBEZ) From the Archives: Oprah Winfrey Cover Story (Vogue) Losing It in the Anti-Dieting Age (New York Times Magazine) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

When lifeguard CJ Parker, played by Pamela Anderson, ran in slow-mo down a sandy California beach in her iconic cherry red swimsuit — you know the one, low in the front, hiiiiiigh on the sides — she didn’t just turn “Baywatch” into the number-one TV show in America, she became the enduring symbol of 90s sexuality. In this episode, Jess and Susie trace that swimsuit’s surprising history — and its ripple effects. Guests: Pamela Anderson, actor, activist and author  Susan Douglas, professor of media studies at the University of Michigan and author of “Enlightened Sexism” FOR MORE: Pamela Anderson Doesn’t Need Your Redemption. She’s Just Fine. (NY Times) How Baywatch Went from Early Belly Flop to the Big Screen (NY Times) Pamela: A Love Story (Netflix) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Susie Banikarim and Jessica Bennett met a decade ago in a newsroom, and have gone on to hold some of the most prestigious jobs in journalism. But they’re also pop culture obsessives and trash-TV addicts who can spend hours going down any rabbit hole. They often unravel cultural moments together, over late-night phone calls and edibles. Now you get to listen, too. Time to meet your hosts (hi!). FOR MORE: Enemies of the People: Trump and the Political Press (Susie’s film)  Feminist Fight Club: A Survival Manual for a Sexist Workplace and This Is 18 (Jess’s books) Monica Lewinsky Is Back, But This Time It’s On Her Terms (NY Times) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What did a generation of young women—and men—learn about sex and relationships when the most iconic romance on TV’s most popular soap opera “General Hospital” began with a rape? Susie and Jess unravel the story of Luke and Laura, the beloved couple from the longest running soap of all time, whose wedding was such a huge cultural moment that it drew more viewers than an actual royal wedding (twice). CW: This episode contains discussion of sexual violence. Guests:  Cindi Leive, co-founder of The Meteor, former editor-in-chief of Glamour and “General Hospital” superfan Danielle Thompson, our soap opera-obsessed pal who knows A LOT about the history of soaps FOR MORE: Why Are College Kids in a Lather Over TV Soap Operas? (NYTimes) The Complex, Contradictory History of the American Soap Opera (Jezebel) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Do you have a piece of pop culture from your past that, looking back, makes you cringe? We sure do. Each week on IN RETROSPECT, we’ll revisit a cultural moment from the 80s and 90s that shaped us — and probably you — to try to understand what it taught us about the world, and our place in it. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.