Lenny's Podcast: Product | Growth | Career

Phyl Terry is the author of Never Search Alone, which I’ve seen so many people reference as the most impactful guide they read for finding a job. Phyl was on the founding team of the first company Amazon acquired back in the ’90s and then was CEO of pioneering product consulting firm Creative Good, with companies like Apple, Facebook, and Microsoft as customers. Today, Phyl is the founder and CEO of Collaborative Gain, which 20 years ago pioneered bringing councils to senior product leaders and GMs in Silicon Valley. That’s their day job—in addition to that, Phyl runs a free global community for job seekers based on their latest book. In our conversation, we discuss:• Why you should never search for a job alone• How job search councils work• How to determine your “candidate-market fit”• How to conduct a listening tour• Creating your job mission and OKRs• How to negotiate job offers• The art of asking for help• Tactics for effective networking and interviewing• Much more—Brought to you by:• Sidebar—Accelerate your career by surrounding yourself with extraordinary peers• Sprig—Build products for people, not data points• Dovetail—The customer insights hub for product teams—Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/land-your-dream-phyl-terry—Where to find Phyl Terry:• X: https://x.com/phylterry• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/phylterry/• Website: https://www.phyl.org/—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Phyl’s background(01:58) The concept of job search councils(04:27) The power of community in job searching(08:55) The scale and structure of job search councils(12:27) The impact of job search councils(20:19) The concept of candidate-market fit(22:50) Writing a Mnookin two-pager(24:37) Conducting listening tours(30:12) Creating a focused candidate-market fit(36:20) Advice on finding the right stage of company for you(40:37) Identifying your unique path(45:30) Navigating tough job markets(49:07) Playing to win(53:36) Negotiation tactics for job offers(01:05:12) The gratitude house exercise(01:10:48) The power of asking for help(01:19:18) How to ask for help(01:28:40) Final thoughts and advice(01:38:21) Lightning round—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

Tomer Cohen is the chief product officer at LinkedIn, responsible for setting the company’s product strategy, leading product development, user experience design, business development, content creation, and customer operations. He also hosts the Building One podcast, where he interviews exceptional builders across various disciplines. In our conversation, we discuss:• How LinkedIn transformed its feed into an engaging content and social platform• Tomer’s famous “We might be wrong, but we are not confused” mantra• The importance of conviction and passion in product leadership• LinkedIn’s approach to experimenting with and implementing AI features• Lessons from Tomer’s rapid career progression at LinkedIn• Strategies for embracing AI in product development—Brought to you by:• Gamma—A new way to present, powered by AI• WorkOS—Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUs• Merge—A single API to add hundreds of integrations into your app—Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-linkedin-became-interesting-tomer-cohen—Where to find Tomer Cohen:• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomercohen/• Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/building-one-with-tomer-cohen/id1726672498—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Introduction to Tomer Cohen and his role at LinkedIn(02:28) The mantra “We might be wrong, but we are not confused”(06:45) Clarity of thought and focus(13:03) Setting ambitious goals and overdelivering(16:18) Transforming LinkedIn’s feed: strategy and execution(22:03) Running experiments at scale(26:24) Goal setting and identifying opportunities (30:58) AI’s role in LinkedIn’s evolution(35:38) The AI-first mindset at LinkedIn(35:38) Developing an AI-first mindset(44:49) Letting go of your roadmaps and allowing room for exploration(49:12) Career growth and personal insights(55:01) Takeaways(56:39) Lightning round and final thoughts—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

Sean Ellis is one of the earliest and most influential thinkers and operators in growth. He coined the term “growth hacking,” invented the ICE prioritization framework, was one of the earliest people to use freemium as a growth lever, and, most famously, developed the Sean Ellis Test for product-market fit (which a large percentage of founders use today to track if they’ve found PMF). Over the course of his career, Sean was head of growth at Dropbox and Eventbrite; helped companies like Microsoft and Nubank refine their growth strategy; was on the founding team of LogMeIn, which sold for over $4 billion; and is the author of one of the most popular growth books of all time, Hacking Growth, which has sold over 750,000 copies. In our conversation, he shares:• The proper use of the Sean Ellis Test for measuring product-market fit• How to increase your activation and retention rates• How to select the right North Star metric for your business• Case studies from his work growing Dropbox and other products• How growth strategy has changed over the past decade• How AI is impacting growth efforts• Much more—Brought to you by:• Gamma—A new way to present, powered by AI• CommandBar—AI-powered user assistance for modern products and impatient users• Merge—A single API to add hundreds of integrations into your app—Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-original-growth-hacker-sean-ellis—Where to find Sean Ellis:• X: https://x.com/seanellis• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/seanellis/• Website: https://www.seanellis.me/• Substack: https://substack.com/@seanellis—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Sean’s background(02:18) The Sean Ellis test explained(06:28) The 40% rule(08:06) Case study: improving product-market fit(12:34) Understanding and leveraging customer feedback(16:50) Challenges and nuances of product-market fit(22:22) When to use the Sean Ellis Test(23:46) When not to use the Sean Ellis Test and other caveats(27:13) Defining your own threshold and how the Sean Ellis Test came about(36:13) Tools for implementing the survey (37:30) Transitioning from surveys to retention cohorts(39:13) Nubank’s approach(40:18) Case study: Superhuman’s strategy for increasing product-market fit(45:18) Coining the term “growth hacking”(48:24) How to approach growth(57:25) Improving activation and onboarding(01:05:17) Identifying effective growth channels(01:10:28) The power of customer conversations(01:12:43) Developing the Dropbox referral program(01:14:47) The importance of word of mouth(01:15:23) Freemium models and engagement(01:19:21) Picking a North Star metric(01:24:30) The evolution of growth strategies(01:27:12) The ICE and RICE frameworks(01:30:11) AI’s role in growth and experimentation(01:32:52) Final thoughts and lightning round—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

Vlad Loktev spent 10 years at Airbnb, where he started as an IC PM and quickly advanced to lead the core Airbnb marketplace business and then GM the entire homes business, managing over 1,000 people and reporting directly to CEO Brian Chesky. He recently left Airbnb and joined Index Ventures as their newest partner. Vlad was my manager at Airbnb for many years, and is the person I credit most for teaching me how to be a great product manager. Prior to Airbnb, Vlad spent a year at Zynga, where he helped grow Words with Friends to over 14 million daily active users. In our conversation, Vlad shares:• Insight into Brian Chesky’s leadership style• Why success as a PM is all about impact, impact, impact• Why chaos can be good• Why as a leader it’s OK to let some fires burn• Why you should learn to “poke the bear”• Balancing product release speed with quality• Lessons on prioritization, decision-making, and organizational design• Advice for founders on building company culture• Much more—Brought to you by:• Pendo—The only all-in-one product experience platform for any type of application• Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security• Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments—Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/impact-impact-impact-vlad-loktev—Where to find Vlad Loktev:• X: https://x.com/vladimirloktev• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vladimirloktev/—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Vlad’s background(02:54) Reflecting on transformative years at Airbnb(04:28) Skills and mindsets for success(11:03) Impact-driven mindset(13:16) Saying no and inquiry before advocacy (17:54) “Poking the bear”(22:46) Psychological tools for leadership(30:08) Building and scaling teams(36:12) Letting fires burn(47:34) Embracing chaos(54:40) The unsell email strategy(01:02:01) Finding your place in an organization(01:05:38) The importance of company culture(01:13:16) Airbnb’s unique approach to product management(01:26:41) Failure corner(01:31:32) Lightning round and final thoughts—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

Nikita Bier is one of the most in-demand consumer, social, and growth experts in the world. He’s the co-founder of TBH (sold to Meta for more than $30 million) and Gas (sold to Discord for millions more) and has helped more consumer apps that have hit #1 in the app stores than any other person I’ve come across. He currently spends his time advising founders on growth, product, and design and is an investor and advisor to some of the best consumer tech companies, including Flo, Locket, Eight Sleep, Citizen, BeReal, Captions, and more. In our conversation, we discuss:• The inside story of how TBH and Gas achieved explosive growth• Strategies for building viral consumer apps• Why teens are such a great audience• Fighting the human trafficking hoax at Gas• The challenge of creating durable social products• His experience working as a PM at Facebook• Advice for founders on building consumer apps• Much more—Brought to you by:• Webflow—The web experience platform• Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security• Explo—Embed customer-facing analytics in your product—Book Nikita for 1:1 consultation/mentoring: https://intro.co/NikitaBier—Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-consistently-go-viral-nikita-bier—Where to find Nikita Bier:• X: https://x.com/nikitabier • Threads: https://www.threads.net/@nikitabier• Website: https://intro.co/NikitaBier—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Nikita’s background (06:08) Nikita’s early ventures: Politify and Outline(08:42) Transition to consumer apps(13:45) The birth of TBH(16:43) Building for teens vs. adults(20:00) TBH’s viral success(32:18) Leveraging live chat(34:08) Lasting lessons from TBH(37:00) Selling TBH to Facebook(42:19) Big-tech product management(48:46) Nikita on why “product management is not real”(51:49) The Tim Cook painting story(53:53) Leaving Facebook and starting a new venture(58:02) Rebuilding TBH and overcoming challenges(59:46) Addressing criticism(01:04:24) The human trafficking hoax(01:09:51) Selling to Discord and lessons learned(01:11:36) Lasting lessons from Gas(01:13:14) Building durable consumer apps(01:22:35) The VC route(01:23:27) Contact permissions in iOS 18(01:26:53) The success of Dupe(01:31:53) Advice for startup founders(01:34:14) Work with Nikita—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

Deb Liu is the CEO of Ancestry and former longtime VP of Product at Facebook. At Facebook, Deb led the creation of Facebook Marketplace, developed the first mobile ad product for apps, built the company’s games business, and launched Facebook Pay. She’s also held leadership roles at PayPal and eBay, serves on the board of Intuit, and is the author of Take Back Your Power. In our conversation, we discuss:• Why you should PM your career like you PM your product• Strategies for incubating new products within large companies• Creating a successful 30-60-90-day plan when starting a new job• The pitfalls of perfectionism• The challenges introverts face in the workplace and how to overcome them• The value of resilience and turning failures into stepping stones• How to leverage coaching in your career development—Brought to you by:• Pendo—The only all-in-one product experience platform for any type of application• WorkOS—Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUs• Webflow—The web experience platform—Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/succeeding-as-an-introvert-deb-liu—Where to find Deb Liu:• Threads: https://www.threads.net/@debliu• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/deborahliu• Substack: https://debliu.substack.com/—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Introduction to Deb Liu(02:18) Deb’s career journey and key advice(09:45) Navigating new roles and challenges(11:27) Overcoming adversity and failure(15:07) Building billion-dollar businesses at Facebook(19:33) Strategies for zero-to-one innovation(23:40) PM your career like a product(33:53) Challenges and strategies for introverts in business(39:19) Reframing self-promotion(42:25) The power of accountability(46:15) Growth: a game of inches(50:52) The 30-60-90-day plan(56:52) Contrarian corner: career and marriage(58:57) Final nuggets of wisdom(01:03:09) How to find a coach(01:04:47) Lightning round—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

Kevin Yien leads product for merchant experiences at Stripe. Before that, he meandered his way from being a technical designer to a product manager, built the restaurants business and ecosystem team at Square, and most recently was head of product and design at Mutiny. He also makes ice cream and teaches for fun. In our conversation, we discuss:• Why aspiring PMs should start in engineering, design, or sales• The importance of writing skills, and how to become a better writer• How to automate user research• Kevin’s “unsell email” technique for hiring• The value of keeping a decision log• Insights on AI and its impact on future generations• Lessons from failure—Brought to you by:• BuildBetter—AI for product teams• OneSchema—Import CSV data 10x faster• Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments—Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/unorthodox-pm-wisdom-kevin-yien—Where to find Kevin Yien:• X: https://x.com/kevinyien• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinyien/• Website: https://kevinyien.com/—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Kevin’s background (02:00) The story behind Kevin’s profile picture(08:41) The role of a product manager(10:48) Getting started in product management(12:47) The importance of writing skills(15:06) Becoming a better writer(19:10) The PM’s role with engineering and design(28:41) Drawing the perimeter for your team(31:37) Feedback tips(35:13) Decision logs and product sense(45:36) Unorthodox hiring strategies(47:01) The unsell email strategy(54:01) Automating user research(01:02:27) AI in everyday life(01:06:05) Lessons from failure(01:14:34) Lightning round—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

Evan LaPointe is the founder of CORE Sciences, which teaches companies and individuals how our brains work and how that translates to improved collaboration, better products, faster decision-making, and more growth. Previously, Evan was the co-founder of Satellite, the fourth-largest analytics product on the internet today (it mostly runs behind the scenes, and pretty much everyone listening will have used it today without knowing it), which was acquired by Adobe, where he later ran product strategy, innovation, and long-range thinking for Adobe’s digital experiences business. In our conversation, we discuss:• The three different systems of the brain• How knowing this can help you become more influential• How understanding different brain states will help you increase productivity and creativity• How to improve your vision and strategy skills• How to design a work environment that fosters innovation• How to build better relationships at work• Much more—Use discount code “LENNY” for $5 off the CORE Sciences personality profile: https://www.core-sciences.com/new-core-identity—Brought to you by:• Webflow—The web experience platform• Explo—Embed customer-facing analytics in your product• Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments—Find the transcript and references at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/understanding-your-brain-evan-lapointe—Where to find Evan LaPointe:• X: https://x.com/evanlapointe• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/evanlapointe/• Website: https://www.core-sciences.com/—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Evan’s background(02:37) Understanding the brain’s complex systems(07:17) The three core brain systems: safety, reward, and purpose(11:03) Applying brain science to team dynamics(14:27) The role of personality in team performance(17:27) Creating effective work environments(23:16) The science of meetings and decision-making(29:35) Enhancing strategy and vision(54:46) Understanding personality traits in strategy and vision(58:58) Tactical tips for increasing openness(01:05:46) Building influence and effective relationships(01:21:17) The importance of trust and appeal in relationships(01:36:47) Creating a positive organizational habitat(01:50:35) Enhancing focus and productivity(02:00:58) Practical tips for deep work and gamma time(02:07:11) Lightning round—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

Joe Hudson is one of the most sought-after executive coaches in Silicon Valley. He is the founder of Art of Accomplishment, a transformational coaching program that has helped tens of thousands of people, including many tech executives and founders from companies like Apple, OpenAI, and Google. His unique method of transformation comes from over 25 years of exploring neurological, psychological, and spiritual traditions, tested against real-world challenges. In our conversation, Joe shares:• Why the critical voice in your head is always wrong, and how to change your relationship with that voice• Why authenticity trumps self-improvement• The importance of embracing all of your emotions• How to create more enjoyable and effective meetings• The power of gratitude in transforming your life• Practical experiments for personal growth• Much more—Apply for Joe’s Connection Course:Thousands of students have taken Joe’s most popular experience, the Connection Course. Unlike most online courses, there is no reading, lectures, or written homework. It is a three-week experiential deep dive where you will apply your learnings to real-life problems—how to make your team more productive, communicate more effectively, and resolve conflicts with ease. Apply here and use the code LENNY for $300 off your enrollment: view.life/lenny.—Brought to you by:• BuildBetter—AI for product teams• WorkOS—Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUs• Coda—The all-in-one collaborative workspace—Find the transcript and references at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/embracing-your-emotions-joe-hudson—Where to find Joe Hudson:• X: https://x.com/FU_joehudson• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joe-hudson/• Website: https://www.artofaccomplishment.com/• Podcast: https://www.artofaccomplishment.com/podcast• Linktree: https://linktr.ee/theartofaccomplishment—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Joe’s background(02:31) The critical voice in your head(06:39) Changing your relationship with the critical voice(13:19) Understanding and embracing emotions(19:52) The importance of emotional fluidity(24:40) Questioning assumptions and self-perception(30:25) The consequences of avoiding emotions(36:57) Experimenting with self-improvement(39:42) Understanding efficiency and enjoyment(43:17) The power of enjoyment in daily tasks(45:03) Innate enjoyment vs. learned enjoyment(46:31) Authenticity vs. self-improvement(50:01) Embracing emotional experiences(55:49) How understanding your emotions helps you make better decisions(01:02:53) Creating effective teams and meetings(01:10:40) Gratitude practice for personal growth(01:15:36) Conclusion and final thoughts—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

Brian Tolkin is the Head of Product at Opendoor. Previously, he was one of the early employees at Uber, where he was instrumental in launching and growing UberPool, UberHop, and UberExpress and started one of the first product operations teams in tech. In our conversation, we dive into:• How to enable product and ops to work well together• How to run great product reviews• How to make good decisions with limited data• How he uses the jobs-to-be-done framework at Opendoor• How to stay calm under pressure as a leader• Wild stories from his time at Uber• Challenges faced at Opendoor during the pandemic• Much more—Brought to you by:• Pendo—The only all-in-one product experience platform for any type of application• Explo—Embed customer-facing analytics in your product• Attio—The powerful, flexible CRM for fast-growing startups—Find the transcript and references at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/scaling-uber-and-opendoor-brian-tolkin—Where to find Brian Tolkin:• X: https://x.com/briantolkin• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/briantolkin/—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Brian’s background(02:14) Career beginnings at Uber(02:49) Transitioning from product operations to product management(06:47) Product and operations synergy(10:00) Surge pricing at Uber(12:18) Scaling challenges, and stories(15:47) Opendoor and Covid adaptations(25:38) Product reviews and Jobs to Be Done(40:30) The challenges of A/B testing(42:23) Increasing conviction in solutions(44:33) Leveraging intuition in product decisions(47:07) Partnering with Zillow(52:55) Staying calm under pressure(56:25) Finding the “kernel of truth” in product management(01:00:21) Failure corner: Early days of Uber Pool(01:06:11) Lightning round and final thoughts—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

Timothy Davis has led performance marketing for all of Shopify for the past 2.5 years, and as a consultant has helped companies like Pinterest, LinkedIn, Redfin, and Eventbrite kickstart and scale their performance marketing teams. In every one of those cases, he got them so performant at paid growth that they significantly scale spend and investment in these channels. In our conversation, we cover:• When and how to start investing in performance marketing• Common mistakes companies make with paid ads• How to build and structure a performance marketing team• How to get your creatives performing better• Strategies for optimizing workflows and team efficiency• How AI will change performance marketing• Much more—Brought to you by:• BuildBetter—AI for product teams• OneSchema—Import CSV data 10x faster• Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments—Find the transcript and references at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/performance-marketing-timothy-davis—Where to find Timothy Davis:• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timothypatrickdavis/—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Timothy’s background (02:31) Understanding performance marketing (06:31) The importance of paid search (08:39) Identifying growth potential (09:54) Case studies: Hairstory and Ipsy (12:22) Experimenting with new platforms (18:57) Choosing the right platforms (20:23) LinkedIn for B2B marketing (27:56) When to start investing in paid growth (33:33) Common mistakes in performance marketing (37:41) Working with agencies and consultants (40:36) Hiring for performance marketing (47:33) Metrics that matter (54:43) Competitor analysis and CPC insights (56:15) Custom reports and data visualization(56:38) Understanding impression and click share (59:10) True competition metrics (01:02:14) Attribution and incrementality (01:08:52) Building a performance marketing team (01:10:53) Creative and ad copy collaboration (01:15:48) Managing workload and hiring strategy (01:20:52) Training and onboarding new hires (01:24:41) Impact of ATT on performance marketing (01:25:56) The power of creative in ads (01:29:47) Using AI in performance marketing (01:37:16) Lightning round —Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

Roger Martin is one of the world’s leading experts on strategy and the author of Playing to Win, one of the most beloved books on strategy. He’s written extensively for the Harvard Business Review; consulted for dozens of Fortune 500 companies, including P&G, Lego, and Ford; and written 11 other books. In our conversation, we discuss:• The five key questions you need to answer to develop an effective strategy• Why most companies get strategy wrong• How to avoid “playing to play” instead of playing to win• Real-world strategy examples from Procter & Gamble, Southwest Airlines, Lego, and Figma• How to think about differentiation vs. low cost• Shortcomings of current strategy education• Much more—Correction: Roger pointed out that he made an error during our chat. When I asked him about Richard Rumelt (~16 mins), he thought I said Richard D'Aveni.—Brought to you by:• Webflow—The web experience platform• WorkOS—Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUs• Cycle—Your feedback hub, on autopilot—Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-ultimate-guide-to-strategy-roger-martin—Where to find Roger Martin:• X: https://x.com/RogerLMartin• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/roger-martin-9916911a9/• Website: https://rogerlmartin.com/—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Roger’s background(02:20) The importance of strategy(07:00) Challenges in developing strategy(08:30) Critique of modern strategy education(14:00) Hamilton Helmer and Richard Rumelt(17:40) Defining strategy(19:12) The Strategy Choice Cascade(23:20) Playing to win vs. playing to play(24:57) Examples of strategic success(30:49) Differentiation and moats(40:23) Applying strategy to real-world scenarios(43:47) Customer-centric strategy(44:45) Defining the market and product(45:59) Value chain and distribution(48:28) Cost leadership vs. differentiation(53:16) Capabilities and management systems(57:14) Competitive advantage and market positioning(01:02:41) Counterpositioning and fault lines(01:05:53) Adapting to AI and market changes(01:14:11) Betterment over perfection(01:18:42) Final thoughts on strategy—Referenced:• Nearly 10% of S&P 500 CEOs are alumni of Procter & Gamble: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2023/02/06/10-of-s-p-500-ceos-pg.html• FigJam: https://www.figma.com/figjam/• Figma: https://www.figma.com/• What Is Resource-Based Theory?: https://www.igi-global.com/dictionary/the-impact-of-technological-governance-and-political-capabilities-on-firms-performances-under-economic-turbulence/67915• Michael Porter on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/professorporter/• Competitive Strategy: Techniques for Analyzing Industries and Competitors: https://www.amazon.com/Competitive-Strategy-Techniques-Industries-Competitors/dp/0684841487• VRIO Framework Explained: https://strategicmanagementinsight.com/tools/vrio/• Business strategy with Hamilton Helmer (author of 7 Powers): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/business-strategy-with-hamilton-helmer• Good Strategy, Bad Strategy | Richard Rumelt: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/good-strategy-bad-strategy-richard• 7 Powers: The Foundations of Business Strategy: https://www.amazon.com/7-Powers-Foundations-Business-Strategy/dp/0998116319• Boston Consulting Group: https://www.bcg.com/• Bruce Henderson: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Henderson• Lego: https://www.lego.com• Vanguard: https://investor.vanguard.com/• Southwest Airlines: https://www.southwest.com/• How Amazon Managed to Dethrone Walmart: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/08/20/technology/how-amazon-beat-walmart.html• GM Lost a 10-Year Battle with Tesla, Pulling the Plug on a Long Line of EVs: https://www.forbes.com/sites/brookecrothers/2023/07/09/gm-killed-its-electric-cars-and-lost-a-10-year-battle-with-tesla/• Westlaw: https://www.westlawinternational.com/• What Is an Economic Moat? Why Warren Buffett Says It Matters for Investors: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/economic-moat-why-warren-buffett-160046125.html• Salomon Brothers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salomon_Brothers• US Airways: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Airways• Four Seasons: https://www.fourseasons.com/• Michael Dell on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mdell/• Bill Gates on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/williamhgates/• Mandarin Oriental: https://www.mandarinoriental.com/en/• Continental Lite: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_Lite• Ted (airline): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_(airline)• Case Study: Oil of Olay: https://www.studocu.com/es/document/universidad-de-murcia/estrategia-de-marketing/case-study-old-of-olay/95079369• AG Lafley on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ag-lafley-2381b3201/• Jack Bogle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Bogle• Seven Ways Windows 95 Changed the World: https://www.forbes.com/sites/ianmorris/2015/08/24/windows-95-changed-the-world/• Where to Start with Strategy? Focus on Betterment: https://rogermartin.medium.com/where-to-start-with-strategy-bae40506304c• Brick by brick: The man who rebuilt the house of Lego shares his leadership secrets: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/on-leadership/wp/2016/12/08/brick-by-brick-the-man-who-rebuilt-the-house-of-lego-shares-his-leadership-secrets/• A New Way to Think: Your Guide to Superior Management Effectiveness: https://www.amazon.com/New-Way-Think-Management-Effectiveness/dp/164782351X/• Playing to Win: How Strategy Really Works: https://www.amazon.com/Playing-Win-Strategy-Really-Works/dp/142218739X• The Design of Business: Why Design Thinking Is the Next Competitive Advantage: https://www.amazon.com/Design-Business-Thinking-Competitive-Advantage/dp/1422177807• The Opposable Mind: How Successful Leaders Win Through Integrative Thinking: https://www.amazon.com/Opposable-Mind-Successful-Integrative-Thinking/dp/1422118924• When More Is Not Better: Overcoming America’s Obsession with Economic Efficiency: https://www.amazon.com/When-More-Not-Better-Overcoming/dp/1647820065—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

Rory Sutherland is widely regarded as one of the most influential (and most entertaining) thinkers in marketing and behavioral science. He’s the vice chairman of Ogilvy UK, the author of Alchemy: The Dark Art and Curious Science of Creating Magic in Brands, Business, and Life, and the founder of Nudgestock, the world’s biggest festival of behavioral science and creativity. He champions thinking from first principles and using human psychology—what he calls “thinking psycho-logically”—over mere logic. In our conversation, we cover:• Why good products don’t always succeed, and bad ones don’t necessarily fail• Why less functionality can sometimes be more valuable• The importance of fame in building successful brands• The importance of timing in product success• The concept of “most advanced, yet acceptable”• Why metrics-driven workplaces can be demotivating• Lots of real-world case studies• Much moreNote: We encountered some technical difficulties that led to less than ideal video quality for this episode, but the lessons from this conversation made it impossible for me to not publish it anyway. Thanks for your understanding and for bearing with the less-than-ideal video quality. —Brought to you by:• Pendo—The only all-in-one product experience platform for any type of application• Cycle—Your feedback hub, on autopilot• Coda—The all-in-one collaborative workspace—Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/what-most-people-miss-about-marketing—Where to find Rory Sutherland:• X: https://x.com/rorysutherland• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rorysutherland• Book: Alchemy: The Dark Art and Curious Science of Creating Magic in Brands, Business, and Life: https://www.amazon.com/Alchemy-Curious-Science-Creating-Business/dp/006238841X—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Rory’s background(02:37) The success and failure of products(04:08) Why the urge to appear serious can be a disaster in marketing(08:05) The role of distinctiveness in product design(12:29) The MAYA principle(15:50) How thinking irrationally can be advantageous(17:40) The fault of multiple-choice tests(21:31) Companies that have successfully implemented out-of-the-box thinking(30:31) “Psycho-logical” thinking(31:45) The hare and the dog metaphor(38:51) Marketing’s crucial role in product adoption(49:21) The quirks of Google Glass(55:44) Survivorship bias(56:09) Balancing rational ideas with irrational ideas(01:06:19) The rise and fall of tech innovations(01:09:54) Consistency, distinctiveness, and clarity(01:21:12) Considering psychological, technological, and economic factors in parallel(01:23:35) Where to find Rory—Referenced:• Google Glass: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Glass• Meta Portal TV: https://www.meta.com/portal/products/portal-tv/• Rory’s quote in a LinkedIn post: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/brad-jackson-04766642_the-urge-to-appear-serious-is-a-disaster-activity-7093497742710210560-1LYN/• The MAYA Principle: Design for the Future, but Balance It with Your Users’ Present: https://www.interaction-design.org/literature/article/design-for-the-future-but-balance-it-with-your-users-present• Ogilvy: https://www.ogilvy.com/• MCI: https://www.mci.world/• Veuve Clicquot: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veuve_Clicquot• Why do the French call the British ‘the roast beefs’?: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/2913151.stm• The Killing on Hulu: https://www.hulu.com/series/the-killing-f5da5c2d-4626-4ba9-bcf3-ff5f891771fb• Original The Killing on BBC: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b017h7m1• The Mandarin Oriental, Hong Kong: https://www.mandarinoriental.com/en/hong-kong/victoria-harbour• SAT: https://satsuite.collegeboard.org/sat• The Widening Racial Scoring Gap on the SAT College Admissions Test: https://www.jbhe.com/features/49_college_admissions-test.html• What is the age of the captain?: https://www.icopilots.com/what-is-the-age-of-the-captain/• Octopus Energy: https://octopus.energy/• Kraken: https://octopusenergy.group/kraken-technologies• Toby Shannan: https://theorg.com/org/shopify/org-chart/toby-shannan• Dunbar’s number: Why we can only maintain 150 relationships: https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20191001-dunbars-number-why-we-can-only-maintain-150-relationships• AO: https://ao.com/• Zappos: https://www.zappos.com/• Joe Cano on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joeycano/• John Ralston Saul’s website: https://www.johnralstonsaul.com/• Voltaire’s Bastards: The Dictatorship of Reason in the West: https://www.amazon.com/Voltaires-Bastards-Dictatorship-Reason-West/dp/0679748199• Psycho-Logic: Why Too Much Logic Deters Magic: https://coffeeandjunk.com/psycho-logic/• Herbert Simon’s Decision-Making Approach: https://bura.brunel.ac.uk/bitstream/2438/4995/1/Fulltext.pdf• Robert Trivers’s website: https://roberttrivers.com/Welcome.html• Crazy Ivan: https://jollycontrarian.com/index.php?title=Crazy_Ivan• The Joys of Being a Late Tech Adopter: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/28/technology/personaltech/joys-late-tech-adopter.html• Jean-Claude Van Damme: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Claude_Van_Damme• Tim Berners-Lee: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Berners-Lee• Edward Jenner and the history of smallpox and vaccination: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1200696/• The real story behind penicillin: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/the-real-story-behind-the-worlds-first-antibiotic• What Are Japanese Toilets?: https://www.bigbathroomshop.co.uk/info/blog/japanese-toilets/• reMarkable: https://remarkable.com/• Chumby: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chumby• Survivorship bias: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias• Jony Ive: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jony_Ive• Marc Newson’s website: https://marc-newson.com/• Designing Men: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/business/2013/11/jony-ive-marc-newson-design-auction• Qantas A330: https://marc-newson.com/qantas-a330/• Herodotus: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herodotus• Big Decision? Consider It Both Drunk and Sober: https://www.forbes.com/sites/chunkamui/2016/03/22/wine-and-sleep-make-for-better-decisions/?sh=5c97fdc524b1• How Henry Ford and Thomas Edison killed the electric car: https://www.speakev.com/threads/how-henry-ford-and-thomas-edison-killed-the-electric-car.4270/• Watch Jay Leno get nostalgic and swoon over this 1909 EV: https://thenextweb.com/news/jay-leno-talk-about-electric-car-1909-baker• Jay Leno’s Garage: https://www.youtube.com/@jaylenosgarage• Nudgestock: https://nudgestock.com/• Akio Morita: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akio_Morita• Don Norman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/donnorman/• What Makes Tesla’s Business Model Different: https://www.investopedia.com/articles/active-trading/072115/what-makes-teslas-business-model-different.asp• Monica Lewinsky on X: https://x.com/MonicaLewinsky• Blindsight: The (Mostly) Hidden Ways Marketing Reshapes Our Brains: azon.com/Blindsight-Mostly-Hidden-Marketing-Reshapes-ebook/dp/B07ZKZ5DWF• Branding That Means Business: https://www.amazon.com/Branding-that-Means-Business-Economist-ebook/dp/B09QBCCH9N• PwC: https://www.pwc.com• Ryanair: https://www.ryanair.com• British Airways: https://www.britishairways.com/• Wrigley’s began as a soap business: know when to pivot: https://theamericangenius.com/entrepreneur/wrigleys-began-as-soap-know-when-to-pivot/• Transport for Humans: https://www.amazon.com/Transport-Humans-Perspectives-Pete-Dyson/dp/1913019357—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

Jessica Lachs is the global head of analytics and data science at DoorDash, where she’s built one of the largest and most respected data organizations in tech. In her more than 10 years at DoorDash, she has served as the first general manager, responsible for launching new markets; the head of business ops and analytics; and the VP of analytics and data science. Previously, Jessica founded GiftSimple, a social gifting startup, and started her career at Lehman Brothers as an investment banking analyst. In our conversation, she shares:• How to structure and scale a high-impact analytics organization• Centralized vs. decentralized data teams• How to pick the right metric and aligning incentives• Advice for data people on how and when to push back• Lessons learned from building a global data team• How to foster a culture of extreme ownership• The role of AI in improving analytics team productivity• Advice for aspiring data leaders without formal training—Brought to you by:• Webflow—The web experience platform• Anvil—The fastest way to build software for documents• Attio—The powerful, flexible CRM for fast-growing startups—Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-a-world-class-data-org-jessica-lachs—Where to find Jessica Lachs:• X: https://x.com/jesslachs• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessica-lachs/—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Jessica’s background(04:59) Centralized vs. embedded analytics teams(10:52) The benefits of a centralized analytics team(15:10) Balancing proactive and reactive work(20:45) Advice on how to push back effectively(24:20) Hiring for curiosity and problem solving(28:57) Coming from a non-traditional background(34:40) The early days and culture at DoorDash(40:39) Encouraging cross-functional roles(44:39) Defining effective metrics(46:30) Simplifying metrics for better outcomes(55:28) Focusing on edge cases and fail states(01:00:12) Managing a global data organization(01:02:31) Leveraging AI for productivity(01:05:25) Building diverse and skilled data teams(01:08:40) Lightning round—Referenced:• How Netflix builds a culture of excellence | Elizabeth Stone (CTO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-netflix-builds-a-culture-of-excellence• Riley Newman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rileynewman/• Tony Xu on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/xutony/• Imposter Syndrome: Why You May Feel Like a Fraud: https://www.verywellmind.com/imposter-syndrome-and-social-anxiety-disorder-4156469• Stanley Tang on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stanleytang/• Andy Fang on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fangsterr/• Evan Moore on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/evanmoore/• How WeDash became the flagship employee program for DoorDash: https://careers.doordash.com/blog/wedash-doordash-employee-program-how-does-it-work• Leading with empathy | Keith Yandell (DoorDash, Uber): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/leading-with-empathy-keith-yandell• The Rose Code: https://www.amazon.com/Rose-Code-Novel-Kate-Quinn/dp/006305941X• Libby app: https://libbyapp.com/• The West Wing on Prime: https://www.amazon.com/West-Wing-Complete-First-Season/dp/B000KZPG04• Alias on Prime: https://www.amazon.com/Alias-Season-1/dp/B00748O13S• Joseon sunscreens: https://beautyofjoseon.com/• Innisfree sunscreens: https://us.innisfree.com/• John Steinbeck quote: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/john_steinbeck_103825• Vanessa Roberts on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vanessa-roberts-b8a509a/• Tia Sherringham on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tiasherringham/• Elizabeth Jarvis-Shean on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elizabeth-jarvis-shean-141a7966/• Regina (Gina) Tarone on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/regina-tarone-a565a2/overlay/about-this-profile/• My Journey (Part 1): I have a job that I would never be hired for: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/jessica-lachs_anniversary-datascience-finance-activity-7216912300056727553-mEv6/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop• Starting an Analytics Org From Scratch — Lessons From a Decade at DoorDash: https://review.firstround.com/starting-an-analytics-org-from-scratch-lessons-from-a-decade-at-doordash/—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

Jeff Weinstein is a product lead at Stripe, where he helped grow their payment APIs to hundreds of billions in volume and transformed the way founders start companies into a few simple clicks with Atlas. Prior to Stripe, Jeff led several startups and sold companies to Groupon and Box. He’s known for his customer obsession, craft, quality, and building beloved products businesses rely on. In our conversation, we discuss:• The power of customer obsession and how to operationalize it in the product development process• How to pick the right metrics and use them to drive impact• Techniques for getting things done at big companies• A group practice Jeff started to uplevel product craft, called Study Group• The story behind Stripe Atlas and its mission to increase entrepreneurship globally• Lessons from working with the founders of Stripe—Brought to you by:• Pendo—The only all-in-one product experience platform for any type of application• Cycle—Your feedback hub, on autopilot• Anvil—The fastest way to build software for documents—Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/creating-a-culture-of-excellence—Where to find Jeff Weinstein:• X: https://x.com/jeff_weinstein• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffwweinstein/• Email: jweinstein@gmail.com—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Jeff’s background (10:16)  The “go, go, go ASAP + optimistic, long-term compounding” approach(15:38) The importance of craft and quality(24:15) Effective customer communication strategies(28:57) The importance of speed in customer interactions (33:19) Narrowing your focus(36:53) Why you should pay attention only to paying-customer feedback(40:24) Practicing silence when communicating (45:33) The role of metrics in product success(54:08) Empowering teams with a single metric(58:23) Picking the right metric for your audience(01:05:10) The importance of metric hygiene(01:11:33) How Stripe uses “study groups” for product improvement(01:37:20) Stripe’s Atlas: simplifying company formation(01:50:38) Automation and operational efficiency(01:55:13) Diversity and team building(02:03:09) Building new products within a large company(02:21:10) Lightning round—Referenced:• Atlas: https://stripe.com/atlas• Stripe: https://stripe.com/• SQL: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SQL• GitHub: https://github.com/• Linear: https://linear.app/• Figma: https://www.figma.com/• Jeff’s tweet about Stripe’s bug-finder program: https://x.com/jeff_weinstein/status/1777487507934040300• The “Collison installation”: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18400504• How we use friction logs to improve products at Stripe: https://dev.to/stripe/how-we-use-friction-logs-to-improve-products-at-stripe-i6p• Fidelity: https://www.fidelity.com/• 83(b) election: https://docs.stripe.com/atlas/83b-election• Jeff’s tweet about Atlas’s NPS score: https://x.com/jeff_weinstein/status/1788644576330469638• What is a Delaware corporation? Here’s what makes this state so attractive to businesses: https://stripe.com/resources/more/what-is-a-delaware-corporation• Incorporating in Delaware explained: Why it’s such a popular option for businesses: https://stripe.com/resources/more/incorporating-in-delaware-explained• 7 of Pixar’s Best Storyboard Examples and the Stories Behind Them: https://boords.com/blog/7-of-pixars-best-storyboard-examples-and-the-stories-behind-them• Alex Kehayias on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexkehayias/• Patrick McKenzie on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmckenzie/• AngelList: https://www.angellist.com/• Dan Hightower on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danhighto/• Stripe Atlas perks partners: https://support.stripe.com/questions/stripe-atlas-perks-partners• Vision, conviction, and hype: How to build 0 to 1 inside a company | Mihika Kapoor (Product at Figma): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/vision-conviction-hype-mihika-kapoor• High Output Management: https://www.amazon.com/High-Output-Management-Andrew-Grove/dp/0679762884• Orbiting the Giant Hairball: A Corporate Fool’s Guide to Surviving with Grace: https://www.amazon.com/Orbiting-Giant-Hairball-Corporate-Surviving/dp/0670879835• 7 Powers: The Foundations of Business Strategy: https://www.amazon.com/7-Powers-Foundations-Business-Strategy/dp/0998116319• Business strategy with Hamilton Helmer (author of 7 Powers): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/business-strategy-with-hamilton-helmer• Box: https://www.box.com/• Patrick Collison on X: https://x.com/patrickc• How to with John Wilson on HBO: https://www.hbo.com/how-to-with-john-wilson• The Quiet Girl on Hulu: https://www.hulu.com/movie/the-quiet-girl-b50a4b8e-d3ff-4635-b806-5e7dbd292ca4• Raycast: https://www.raycast.com/• Quicksilver: https://qsapp.com/• Alfred: https://www.alfredapp.com/help/workflows/automations/• CleanShot: https://cleanshot.com/• John Collison on X: https://x.com/collision—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

Mike Maples, Jr. is a legendary early-stage startup investor and a co-founder and partner at Floodgate. He’s made early bets on transformative companies like Twitter, Lyft, Twitch, Okta, Rappi, and Applied Intuition and is one of the pioneers of seed-stage investing as a category. He’s been on the Forbes Midas List eight times and enjoys sharing the lessons he’s learned from his years studying iconic companies. In his new book, Pattern Breakers: Why Some Start-Ups Change the Future, co-authored with Peter Ziebelman, he discusses what he’s found separates startups and founders that break through and change the world from those that don’t. After spending years reviewing the notes and decks from the thousands of startups he’s known over the past two decades, he’s uncovered three ways that breakthrough founders think and act differently. In our conversation, Mike talks about:• The three elements of breakthrough startup ideas• Why you need to both think and act differently• How to avoid the “comparison trap” and “conformity trap”• The importance of movements, storytelling, and healthy disagreeableness in startup success• How to apply pattern-breaking principles within large companies• Mike’s one piece of advice for founders• Much morePre-order Mike’s book here and get a second signed copy for free. Limited copies are available, so order ASAP: patternbreakers.com/lenny.—Brought to you by:• Enterpret—Transform customer feedback into product growth• Anvil—The fastest way to build software for documents• Webflow—The web experience platform—Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-find-a-great-startup-idea-mike-maples-jr—Where to find Mike Maples, Jr.:• X: https://x.com/m2jr• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/maples/• Substack: https://greatness.substack.com/• Website: https://www.floodgate.com/—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Mike’s background(03:10) The inspiration behind Pattern Breakers(08:09) Uncovering startup insights(11:37) A quick summary of Pattern Breakers(13:52) Coming up with an idea(15:30) Inflections(17:09) Examples of inflections(28:10) Insights(36:58) The power of surprises(47:36) Founder-future fit(55:33) Advice for aspiring founders(56:41) Living in the future: valid opinions(55:34) Case study: Maddie Hall and Living Carbon(58:40) Identifying lighthouse customers(01:00:53) The importance of desperation in customer needs(01:03:57) Creating movements and storytelling(01:24:22) The role of disagreeableness in startups(01:34:42) Applying these principles within a company(01:40:43) Lightning round—Referenced:• Pattern Breakers: Why Some Start-Ups Change the Future: https://www.amazon.com/Pattern-Breakers-Start-Ups-Change-Future/dp/1541704355• Justin.tv: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin.tv• Airbnb’s CEO says a $40 cereal box changed the course of the multibillion-dollar company: https://fortune.com/2023/04/19/airbnb-ceo-cereal-box-investors-changed-everything-billion-dollar-company/• Brian Chesky’s new playbook: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/brian-cheskys-contrarian-approach• The Unconventional Exit: How Justin Kan Sold His First Startup on eBay: https://medium.datadriveninvestor.com/the-unconventional-exit-how-justin-kan-sold-his-first-startup-on-ebay-4d705afe1354• Kyle Vogt on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kylevogt/• The State of Telehealth Before and After the COVID-19 Pandemic: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9035352/• The Craigslist Killers: https://www.gq.com/story/craigslist-killers• The social radar: Y Combinator’s secret weapon | Jessica Livingston (co-founder of Y Combinator, author, podcast host): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-social-radar-jessica-livingston• Michael Seibel on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mwseibel/• The Airbnb Story: How Three Ordinary Guys Disrupted an Industry, Made Billions ... and Created Plenty of Controversy: https://www.amazon.com/Airbnb-Story-Ordinary-Disrupted-Controversy/dp/0544952669• Scott Cook: https://www.forbes.com/profile/scott-cook/• Chegg: https://www.chegg.com/• Aayush Phumbhra on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aayush/• Osman Rashid on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/osmanrashid/• Okta: https://www.okta.com/• The Man Who Makes the Future: Wired Icon Marc Andreessen: https://www.wired.com/2012/04/ff-andreessen/• Peter Ludwig on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/peterwludwig/• Qasar Younis on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/qasar/• Paul Allen’s website: https://paulallen.com/• Louis Pasteur quote: https://www.forbes.com/quotes/6145/• What was Atrium and why did it fail? https://www.failory.com/cemetery/atrium• Patrick Collison on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/patrickcollison/• Drew Houston on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/drewhouston/• William Gibson’s quote: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/681-the-future-is-already-here-it-s-just-not-evenly• Maddie Hall on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/maddie-hall-76293135/• Living Carbon: https://www.livingcarbon.com• Zenefits (now Trinet): https://connect.trinet.com/• Sam Altman on X: https://x.com/sama• Steve Wozniak on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/wozniaksteve/• Horsley Bridge Partners: https://www.horsleybridge.com/• David Swensen: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_F._Swensen• Judith Elsea on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/judithelsea/• 7 Powers: The Foundations of Business Strategy: https://www.amazon.com/7-Powers-Foundations-Business-Strategy/dp/0998116319• Business strategy with Hamilton Helmer (author of 7 Powers): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/business-strategy-with-hamilton-helmer• Lyft’s Focus on Community and the Story Behind the Pink Mustache: https://techcrunch.com/2012/09/17/lyfts-focus-on-community-and-the-story-behind-the-pink-mustache/• Logan Green on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/logangreen/• John Zimmer on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnzimmer11/• Storytelling with Nancy Duarte: How to craft compelling presentations and tell a story that sticks: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/storytelling-with-nancy-duarte-how• Steve Jobs Introducing the iPhone at MacWorld 2007: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7qPAY9JqE4• Jonathan Livingston Seagull: https://www.amazon.com/Jonathan-Livingston-Seagull-Richard-Bach/dp/0743278909• The paths to power: How to grow your influence and advance your career | Jeffrey Pfeffer (author of 7 Rules of Power, professor at Stanford GSB): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-paths-to-power-jeffrey-pfeffer• Robin Roberts on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robin-roberts-393a934b/• Skunkworks: https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/who-we-are/business-areas/aeronautics/skunkworks.html• Vision, conviction, and hype: How to build 0 to 1 inside a company | Mihika Kapoor (Product at Figma): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/vision-conviction-hype-mihika-kapoor• Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-0-to-1-inside-atlassian-tanguy-crusson• Figma: https://www.figma.com/• Atlassian: https://www.atlassian.com/• Vinod Khosla: https://www.khoslaventures.com/team/vinod-khosla/• Top Five Regrets of the Dying: A Life Transformed by the Dearly Departing: https://www.amazon.com/Top-Five-Regrets-Dying-Transformed-ebook/dp/B07KNRLY1L• Chase, Chance, and Creativity: The Lucky Art of Novelty: https://www.amazon.com/Chase-Chance-Creativity-Lucky-Novelty/dp/0262511355• Clay Christensen’s books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Clayton-M.-Christensen/author/B000APPD3Y• Resonate: Present Visual Stories That Transform: https://www.amazon.com/Resonate-Present-Stories-Transform-Audiences/dp/0470632011• Ferrari on Prime: https://www.amazon.com/Ferrari-Adam-Driver/dp/B0CNDBN672• Montblanc fountain pens: https://www.montblanc.com/en-us—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

Dylan Field is the co-founder and CEO of Figma, the collaborative design platform that has revolutionized how product teams work. In my first-ever live podcast, recorded at Figma Config, Dylan and I dig into:• How intuition and product taste drive Dylan’s decision-making• The challenge of keeping things simple• Dylan’s thoughts on the future of product management• Lessons from Figma’s early days• How Figma built their initial user base• Dylan’s journey from intern to CEO of a 1,000+-person company• The future of design tools and AI—Brought to you by:• WorkOS—Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUs• Anvil—The fastest way to build software for documents• User Testing—Human understanding. Human experiences.—Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/dylan-field-live-at-config—Where to find Dylan Field:• X: https://x.com/zoink?lang=en• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dylanfield/—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Introduction(01:11) Welcoming Dylan Field(02:36) Highlights and surprises from Config(06:58) The philosophy of design(08:01) Raccoon feet and muffin hands(09:57) Building and refining intuition and product taste(12:50) How to influence leadership(16:14) The role of product managers(21:12) The future of product management(22:20) The importance of simplicity in design(26:10) The long road to Figma’s launch(27:44) Advice for aspiring entrepreneurs(29:07) Knowing when it’s time to ship(30:39) Early user acquisition strategies(35:50) Spotting trends and future innovations(39:20) Reflections on leadership and growth(43:16) Lightning round—Referenced:• Mihika Kapoor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mihikakapoor/• Rick Rubin on the Creative Act—60 Minutes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE1teB5bN-w• Figma pages: https://help.figma.com/hc/en-us/articles/360038511293-Create-and-manage-pages• Leading through uncertainty: A design-led company—Brian Chesky (Config 2023): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dkfijg7s76o• An inside look at how Figma builds product | Yuhki Yamashita (CPO of Figma): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/an-inside-look-at-how-figma-builds• Vision, conviction, and hype: How to build 0 to 1 inside a company | Mihika Kapoor (Product at Figma): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/vision-conviction-hype-mihika-kapoor• An inside look at Figma’s unique GTM motion | Claire Butler (first GTM hire): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/an-inside-look-at-figmas-unique-bottom• Zigging vs. zagging: How HubSpot built a $30B company | Dharmesh Shah (co-founder/CTO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/lessons-from-30-years-of-building• Nadia Singer on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nadiasinger/ • Sho Kuwamoto on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shokuwamoto/• FigJam: https://www.figma.com/figjam/• Tim Van Damme on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tim-van-damme-maxvoltar/• Coda: https://coda.io/• Shishir Mehrotra on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shishirmehrotra/• Websim: https://websim.ai/• eToys.com commercial (from Dylan’s childhood acting career): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3Y92aCmmbU—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

Jessica Livingston is a co-founder of Y Combinator, the first and most successful startup accelerator. Y Combinator has funded over 5,000 companies, 200 of which are now unicorns, including Airbnb, Dropbox, DoorDash, Stripe, Coinbase, and Reddit. Jessica played a crucial role in YC’s early success, when she was nicknamed the “social radar” because of her uncanny ability to quickly evaluate people—an essential skill when investing in early-stage startups. She’s also the host of the popular podcast The Social Radars, where she interviews billion-dollar-startup founders, and the author of the acclaimed book Founders at Work, which captures the origin stories of some of today’s most interesting companies. In our conversation, we discuss:• How Jessica gained the affectionate title of the “social radar”• Why defensive founders are a red flag• How to develop your social radar• What she looks for in founders during YC interviews• How YC’s early inexperience in angel investing led to the batch model• Her favorite stories from interviews with Airbnb, Rippling, and more• Lessons learned from hosting her own podcast• Much more—Brought to you by:• Enterpret—Transform customer feedback into product growth• Anvil—The fastest way to build software for documents• Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security—Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-social-radar-jessica-livingston—Where to find Jessica Livingston:• X: https://x.com/jesslivingston• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessicalivingston1/• Podcast: https://www.thesocialradars.com/—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Jessica’s background(02:42) Thoughts on being under-recognized(07:52) Jessica’s superpower: the social radar(15:11) Evaluating founders: key traits and red flags(21:00) The Airbnb story: a lesson in hustle and determination(25:57) A YC success story(28:26) The importance of earnestness(32:45) Confidence vs. defensiveness(34:43) Commitment and co-founder disputes(37:46) Relentless resourcefulness(40:00) Jessica’s social radar: origins and insights(43:24) Honing her social radar skills(45:44) Conviction and scams: a Y Combinator story(46:50) The interview process: challenges and insights(48:20) Operationalizing founder evaluation(49:38) Advice for building social radar skills(52:08) The “Reading the Mind in the Eyes” quiz(55:19) Jessica’s podcast: The Social Radars(01:00:34) Lessons from podcasting and interviewing(01:09:58) Lightning round—Referenced:• Paul Graham’s post about Jessica: https://paulgraham.com/jessica.html• Paul Graham on X: https://x.com/paulg• Robert Tappan Morris: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Tappan_Morris• Trevor Blackwell on X: https://x.com/tlbtlbtlb• Y Combinator: https://www.ycombinator.com/• “The Founders” examines the rise and legend of PayPal: https://www.economist.com/culture/2022/02/19/the-founders-examines-the-rise-and-legend-of-paypal• Patrick Collison on X: https://x.com/patrickc• John Collison on X: https://x.com/collision• Brian Chesky on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianchesky/• Nate Blecharczyk on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/blecharczyk/• Joe Gebbia on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jgebbia/• Airbnb’s CEO says a $40 cereal box changed the course of the multibillion-dollar company: https://fortune.com/2023/04/19/airbnb-ceo-cereal-box-investors-changed-everything-billion-dollar-company/• Parker Conrad on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/parkerconrad/• Zenefits: https://connect.trinet.com/hr-platform• Goat: https://www.goat.com/• Eddy Lu on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eddylu/• Drew Houston on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/drewhouston/• Arash Ferdowsi on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/arashferdowsi/• Lessons from 1,000+ YC startups: Resilience, tar pit ideas, pivoting, more | Dalton Caldwell (Y Combinator, Managing Director): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/lessons-from-1000-yc-startups•Bitcoin launderer pleads guilty, admits to massive Bitfinex hack: https://www.cnbc.com/2023/08/03/new-york-man-admits-being-original-bitfinex-hacker-during-guilty-plea-in-dc-to-bitcoin-money-laundering.html• Paul Graham’s tweet with the facial recognition test: https://x.com/paulg/status/1782875262855663691• SmartLess podcast: https://www.smartless.com• Jason Bateman on X: https://x.com/batemanjason• Will Arnett on X: https://x.com/arnettwill• Sean Hayes on X: https://x.com/seanhayes• The Social Radars with Tony Xu, Co-Founder & CEO of DoorDash: https://www.ycombinator.com/library/Ja-tony-xu-co-founder-ceo-of-doordash• The Social Radars with Brian Chesky: https://www.ycombinator.com/library/JW-brian-chesky-co-founder-ceo-of-airbnb• The Social Radars with Patrick and John Collison: https://www.ycombinator.com/library/Kx-patrick-john-collison-co-founders-of-stripe• The Social Radars with Brian Armstrong: https://www.ycombinator.com/library/K3-brian-armstrong-co-founder-and-ceo-of-coinbase• The Social Radars with Emmett Shear: https://www.ycombinator.com/library/KM-emmett-shear-co-founder-of-twitch• The Social Radars with Paul Graham: https://www.ycombinator.com/library/JV-paul-graham-co-founder-of-y-combinator-and-viaweb• The Social Radars with Adora Cheung: https://www.ycombinator.com/library/L0-adora-cheung-co-founder-of-homejoy-instalab• Founders at Work: Stories of Startups’ Early Days: https://www.amazon.com/Founders-Work-Stories-Startups-Early/dp/1430210788• Startup School: https://www.startupschool.org/• The Social Radars with Parker Conrad: https://www.ycombinator.com/library/Ky-parker-conrad-founder-of-zenefits-rippling• Rippling: https://www.rippling.com/• Carry on, Jeeves: https://www.amazon.com/Carry-Jeeves-Dover-Thrift-Editions/dp/0486848957• Very Good, Jeeves: https://www.amazon.com/Very-Good-Jeeves-Wooster-Book-ebook/dp/B0051GST06• Right Ho, Jeeves: https://www.amazon.com/Right-Ho-Jeeves-P-Wodehouse-ebook/dp/B083FFDNHN/• Life: https://www.amazon.com/Life-Keith-Richards-ebook/dp/B003UBTX72/• My Name Is Barbra: https://www.amazon.com/My-Name-Barbra-Streisand/dp/0525429522• Clarkson’s Farm on Prime: https://www.amazon.com/Clarksons-Farm-Season-1/dp/B095RHJ52R• Schitt’s Creek on Hulu: https://www.hulu.com/series/schitts-creek-a2e7a946-9652-48a8-884b-3ea7ea4de273• Yellowstone on Peacock: https://www.peacocktv.com/stream-tv/yellowstone• Sam Altman on X: https://x.com/sama• Justin Kan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/justinkan/• Alexis Ohanian on X: https://x.com/alexisohanian• Steve Huffman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shuffman56/• Breaking News: Condé Nast/Wired Acquires Reddit: https://techcrunch.com/2006/10/31/breaking-news-conde-nastwired-acquires-reddit/• Charles River Venture: https://www.crv.com/—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

Ami Vora is the Chief Product Officer of Faire, which connects independent retailers and brands around the world. Before Faire, Ami spent over 15 years at Meta, including as VP of Product and Design for WhatsApp (2B+ users), VP of Product for Facebook’s ads system (now $130B of annual revenue), and director at Instagram. She began her career working on developer tools at Microsoft. In our conversation, we discuss:• Why execution eats strategy for breakfast• Using metaphor to rally teams around one shared goal• How to build cross-functional relationships• “Dinosaur brain,” “Toddler soccer,” and the “hill climbing” metaphors• A tactic for handling disagreement• Tips for working well with product-minded founders as a product leader• The story of Ami’s incredible 15-year journey from temp to VP at Meta• Much more—Brought to you by:• Sidebar—Accelerate your career by surrounding yourself with extraordinary peers.• Anvil—The fastest way to build software for documents.• User Testing—Human understanding. Human experiences.—Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/authenticity-and-curiosity-ami-vora—Where to find Ami Vora:• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amvora/• Substack: https://amivora.substack.com/—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Ami’s background(02:00) The myth of perfection in success(07:55) Emotionally connecting with the job(09:55) Embracing curiosity in moments of challenge(13:16) Thinking in feedback loops(17:17) The “dinosaur brain” metaphor in product reviews(20:20) Strategies for conducting effective product reviews(26:33) Using metaphors and imagery to communicate your vision(29:35) The power of having a shared narrative(31:55) WhatsApp: an example of metaphor in action(34:44) Emulating people that inspire you(36:19) WhatsApp video calling(37:35) Why execution is greater than strategy(41:36) Time allotment for strategy vs. execution(45:10) How to become a better strategic thinker(47:59) The intricacies of implementing feedback(51:53) Being a female leader in tech(55:13) Advice for young women in tech(56:07) Setting goals and aligning incentives(01:01:40) Acknowledging hard truths(01:05:46) Lessons from transitioning to Faire(01:08:40) The importance of a good CPO/CEO relationship(01:11:17) Vetting heads of product and maintaining customer focus(01:12:40) How Ami went from intern to leading major products at Meta(01:14:53) The one thing you should do to be successful in product(01:17:25) Lightning round—Referenced:• Faire: https://www.faire.com/• Making Meta | Andrew “Boz” Bosworth (CTO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/making-meta-andrew-boz-bosworth-cto•  Community Wisdom: AMA with Dan Hockenmaier + Facilitating a roadmap session, structuring product teams, navigating an acquisition, companies not needing PMs anymore, and much more: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/making-meta-andrew-boz-bosworth-cto• Developing a growth model + marketplace growth strategy | Dan Hockenmaier (Faire, Thumbtack, Reforge): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/developing-a-growth-model-marketplace• Dan Hockenmaier’s website: https://www.danhock.com/• On Reviews: https://boz.com/articles/reviews• Finding a global optimum always feels like a hill climb: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/amvora_finding-a-global-optimum-always-feels-like-activity-7074776143882588161-jhyy/• Dolores Park: https://sfrecpark.org/892/Mission-Dolores-Park• Rob Goldman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robgoldman/• Execution eats strategy for breakfast, but execution without strategy leads to burnout: https://rationalpm.substack.com/p/execution-eats-strategy-for-breakfast• The goal of a “strategy” is to change our own team’s behavior: https://amivora.substack.com/p/the-goal-of-a-strategy-is-to-change• The paths to power: How to grow your influence and advance your career | Jeffrey Pfeffer (author of 7 Rules of Power, professor at Stanford GSB): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-paths-to-power-jeffrey-pfeffer• Path to Power course outline: https://jeffreypfeffer.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Pfeffer-OB377-Course-Outline-2018.pdf• Management Time: Who’s Got the Monkey?: https://hbr.org/1999/11/management-time-whos-got-the-monkey• Max Rhodes on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/max-rhodes/• Coupa Coffee: https://www.coupacafe.com/• Brandee Barker on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brandeedbarker/• Year of Yes: How to Dance It Out, Stand In the Sun and Be Your Own Person: https://www.amazon.com/Year-Yes-Dance-Stand-Person/dp/1476777128 • How to tell better stories | Matthew Dicks (Storyworthy): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/how-to-tell-better-stories-matthew-dicks-storyworthy/• A life of yes: Matthew Dicks at TEDxSomerville: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3TaQFcaMk4• The Office on Peacock: https://www.peacocktv.com/stream-tv/the-office• 30 Rock on Peacock: https://www.peacocktv.com/watch-online/tv/30-rock/6240863759978157112• Dall-E-2: https://openai.com/index/dall-e-2/• ChatGPT: https://chatgpt.com• Fellow kettles: https://fellowproducts.com/products/stagg-ekg-electric-pour-over-kettle• TikTok’s “Roman Empire” Meme, Explained: https://www.forbes.com/sites/danidiplacido/2023/09/21/tiktoks-roman-empire-meme-explained/—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

Tanguy Crusson is the product lead for Jira Product Discovery at Atlassian. In his more than 10 years at the company, he has been instrumental in taking several new products from zero to one, including HipChat, Statuspage, and Jira Product Discovery. In this episode, we dive deep into the struggles of innovating and building new products inside a large company. Tanguy shares candid stories about what worked, what didn’t, and his many hard-won lessons learned about how to successfully build 0 to 1. We cover:• Why large companies with so many advantages still fail at creating new products• Lessons learned from building HipChat• How to avoid common pitfalls like competitive myopia and premature scaling• Lessons learned from the acquisition and integration of Statuspage• Insights from the success of Jira Product Discovery• Tactics for protecting your “ugly babies”• The power of “lighthouse users”• The importance of having a “why now”• Much more—Brought to you by:• Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security• WorkOS—Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUs• Coda—The all-in-one collaborative workspace—Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-0-to-1-inside-atlassian-tanguy-crusson—Where to find Tanguy Crusson:• X: https://x.com/tanguycrusson• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tanguy-crusson-99832a—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Tanguy’s background(02:30) Tanguy’s journey at Atlassian(07:03) The challenges of innovating in large companies(10:42) Atlassian's high bar for excellence (12:58) The HipChat story: successes, failures, and lessons learned(20:47) Lessons learned from building HipChat(33:49) Statuspage: a journey of perseverance(39:48) Acquisition challenges and lessons(47:22) Strategic decisions: build, buy, or partner?(48:17) Learning to articulate "why now"(54:08) A quick summary of lessons in this episode(55:40) The success and pain of launching Jira Product Discovery (58:10) Incubating new products: the Point A program(01:00:13) Failure is the most likely outcome(01:04:15) Atlassian's four-phase approach to launching new products(01:09:20) Breaking rules without breaking trust(01:16:16) Early success and team autonomy(01:17:22) Innovating without disrupting existing customers(01:23:17) The Lighthouse Users program(01:30:00) Protecting and nurturing new ideas(01:36:14) Balancing innovation with personal well-being(01:38:17) A reminder to look after yourself(01:42:06) Lightning round—Referenced:• Atlassian: https://www.atlassian.com/• HipChat: https://community.atlassian.com/t5/Hipchat/ct-p/hipchat• Stride: https://community.atlassian.com/t5/Stride/ct-p/stride• Statuspage: https://www.atlassian.com/software/statuspage• Opsgenie: https://www.atlassian.com/software/opsgenie• Jira Product Discovery: https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/product-discovery• HipChat billboard: https://x.com/HubSpot/status/654696998126272512• Announcing our new partnership with Slack: https://www.atlassian.com/blog/announcements/new-atlassian-slack-partnership• Slack shows it’s worried about Microsoft Teams with a full-page newspaper ad: https://www.theverge.com/2016/11/2/13497766/slack-microsoft-teams-new-york-times-ad• What Is ‘Dogfooding’?: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/14/business/dogfooding.html• Jira: https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira• Confluence: https://www.atlassian.com/software/confluence• PagerDuty: https://www.pagerduty.com/• New Relic: https://newrelic.com/• BigPanda: https://www.bigpanda.io/• Transparent Uptime: http://www.transparentuptime.com/• Vision, conviction, and hype: How to build 0 to 1 inside a company | Mihika Kapoor (Product at Figma): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/vision-conviction-hype-mihika-kapoor• Figma: https://www.figma.com/• Lessons from Atlassian: Launching new products, getting buy-in, and staying ahead of the competition | Megan Cook (head of product, Jira): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/lessons-from-atlassian-launching• Noah Weiss on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/noahw/• Tanguy’s LinkedIn post about “lighthouse users”: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/tanguy-crusson-99832a_lighthouse-users-one-of-the-pm-techniques-activity-7176654510801502210-hWNi/• Pixar Chief: Protect Your ‘Ugly Babies’ (Your Unsightly Ideas): https://www.forbes.com/sites/andyboynton/2014/03/17/pixar-chief-protect-your-ugly-babies-your-unsightly-ideas/• Atlas: https://www.atlassian.com/software/atlas• Point A: https://www.atlassian.com/point-a• Scott Farquhar on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scottfarquhar• Who: A Method for Hiring: https://www.amazon.com/Who-Method-Hiring-HC-2008/dp/B004C79SRS/• Hakim’s Odyssey: Book 1: From Syria to Turkey: https://www.amazon.com/Hakims-Odyssey-Book-Syria-Turkey/dp/1637790007• Living with the Earth, Volume 1: Permaculture, Ecoculture: Inspired by Nature: https://www.amazon.com/Living-Earth-Gardeners-Permaculture-Ecoculture/dp/1856232603/• INRIA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Institute_for_Research_in_Computer_Science_and_Automation• How a Hydrofoil Works: https://web.mit.edu/2.972/www/reports/hydrofoil/hydrofoil.html• What Is Kitefoil or Foilboarding?: https://www.whenitswindy.com/wp/?page_id=534• Freediving: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freediving• Tanguy’s freediving stats: https://www.aidainternational.org/Athletes/Profile-00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000a45• Perplexity: https://www.perplexity.com/—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe