Nobody Should Believe Me

In Andrea’s full conversation with law professor and nurse Bea Yorker, they discuss the complexities of medical child abuse, their work with survivors, and debunk some of the most common misconceptions about Munchausen by proxy/ medical child abuse. *** Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea’s books here. To support the show, subscribe on Apple Podcasts or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe where you can listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free.  For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here. *** Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Seventeen. That’s the number of states suing the US government to end federal protections for disabled individuals. 880 billion. That’s the amount of money that Congress is primed to cut from Medicaid funding. One in four. That’s the number of adults in the US who report having a disability. The math, well—it isn’t adding up. This week, W. Kamau Bell is joined by advocates Zoe Brennan-Krohn and Nicole Jorwic to discuss the current state of disability rights in the US, how we got here, and what a just, equitable system could look like—both for individuals needing care and their caregivers. Zoe Brennan-Krohn is Director of the ACLU’s Disability Rights Program and Nicole Jorwic is a disability rights activist and the Chief of Advocacy and Campaigns at Caring Across. At Liberty is a production of the ACLU, and hosted by W. Kamau Bell. This episode was executive produced by Jessica Herman Weitz and Gwen Schroeder for the ACLU, and W. Kamau Bell, Kelly Rafferty, PhD, and Melissa Hudson Bell, PhD for Who Knows Best Productions. It was recorded at Skyline Studios in Oakland, CA. At Liberty is edited and produced by Erica Getto and Myrriah Gossett for Good Get. *** Listen to At Liberty: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/at-liberty/id1396174920 Donate to the ACLU: http://www.aclu.org/action Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Novelist Andrea Dunlop is looking for answers. When her older sister was first investigated for Munchausen by Proxy abuse more than a decade ago, it tore her family apart. This catastrophic series of events sent Dunlop on a journey to understand this most taboo form of abuse. In this groundbreaking podcast, she talks to some of the top experts in the world to explore the criminology and psychopathology behind Munchausen by Proxy and to reveal the wide swath of destruction these perpetrators leave in their wake.  Along the way, she becomes captivated by the case of Hope Ybarra: Dunlop speaks to those most familiar with the case, from the reporter who broke the story, to the detective who investigated it, to the family who lived through it. In the dramatic finale, she’ll speak to Hope Ybarra herself.​  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We meet accomplished novelist and loving mother Andrea Dunlop as she embarks on a journey to understand the series of events that tore her family apart. We learn that her older sister has been investigated twice for Munchausen by Proxy abuse, which inspired Andrea to learn everything she could about this complex and misunderstood issue. We see Andrea become captivated by the story of Hope Ybarra and go along with her to meet Hope’s father, sister, and brother: the first people Andrea has ever spoken to who’ve actually lived through a case. But can anything prepare Andrea for the truth? * * * Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop  Buy Andrea's books here. To support the show, go to https://apple.co/nobodyshouldbelieveme  to listen on Apple Podcasts and just click ‘Subscribe’ on the top of the show page to listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com  The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.   To learn more about Dr. Marc Feldman, visit Munchausen.com  *** Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We delve deeper into the story of Hope Ybarra, a young mother whose family discovers she’s been faking her eight-year-long battle with terminal cancer and begins to suspect her own health isn’t all she’s lying about. We talk more to Hope’s family and her ex-husband Fabian Ybarra about their efforts to unravel Hope’s many sinister deceptions.  We meet Detective Mike Weber, who was responsible for investigating Hope Ybarra, an early foray into what would become the main focus of his career: Munchausen by Proxy. * * * Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop  Buy Andrea's books here. To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive bonus content.   For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com  The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.   To learn more about Dr. Marc Feldman, visit Munchausen.com  * * * Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop  To support the show, go to https://apple.co/nobodyshouldbelieveme  to listen on Apple Podcasts and just click ‘Subscribe’ on the top of the show page to listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com  The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.   To learn more about Dr. Marc Feldman, visit Munchausen.com  *** Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Andrea speaks to Deanna Boyd, the crime reporter who broke the Hope Ybarra case and discovers that Hope's was one of many Munchausen By Proxy cases in Tarrant County that Deanna unearthed; all of which had flown under the radar. What's going on here? Why are there so many cases in this one area? As Andrea interviews Deanna and meets with Detective Mike Weber, as well as Dr. Jayme Coffman and Dr. Karen Shultz--two doctors involved with the Ybarra and many other MBP cases--she makes a chilling discovery. It's not that there are so many cases in Tarrant County, it's just that they're catching them. If the systems meant to protect children were functioning, every county would look like Tarrant. Andrea can only guess as to what truly went on behind the scenes in her own family's case, but she begins to grasp what the systems involved--CPS, the police, the doctors--are up against and why so many cases are destined to fail. Meanwhile, Andrea continues her maddening back-and-forth with Hope. *** Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here. To support the show, go to https://apple.co/nobodyshouldbelieveme  to listen on Apple Podcasts and just click ‘Subscribe’ on the top of the show page to listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. For more about Mike Weber, visit https://mikeweberconsulting.com/ Read Deanna Boyd’s original reporting: https://media.star-telegram.com/Munchausenmoms/ *** Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As we learn from Detective Mike Weber, the father in a Munchausen by Proxy case can be the most important ally--or the biggest obstacle--in protecting child victims from abuse. We learn more about how Andrea’s own family became divided during the first investigation into her sister and we meet George Hunnicut, a veteran who discovered his young wife was abusing their infant son and found himself up against a system that had no idea what to do for him. Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here. To support the show, go to https://apple.co/nobodyshouldbelieveme  to listen on Apple Podcasts and just click ‘Subscribe’ on the top of the show page to listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. For more about Mike Weber, visit https://mikeweberconsulting.com/ More about George Hunnicut’s story: https://media.star-telegram.com/Munchausenmoms/ More about Ryan Crawford’s story: https://www.dmagazine.com/publications/d-magazine/2019/august/the-boy-who-stayed-sick/ *** Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As we learn from Detective Mike Weber, the father in a Munchausen by Proxy case can be the most important ally--or the biggest obstacle--in protecting child victims from abuse. In part two of Andrea’s examination of the father’s role in MBP cases, Andrea speaks to “John”, a father devastated but the revelation that his ex-wife had subjected their son to unnecessary brain surgery. We also talk to Ryan Crawford, a man who found himself fighting for his son’s life against a disbelieving system. Plus we get a stunning real-time update on one of our cases as “John” decides to come forward with his true identity.   *** Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop  Buy Andrea's books here. To support the show, go to https://apple.co/nobodyshouldbelieveme  to listen on Apple Podcasts and just click ‘Subscribe’ on the top of the show page to listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com  The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.  More about Ryan Crawford’s story: https://www.dmagazine.com/publications/d-magazine/2019/august/the-boy-who-stayed-sick/  https://mikeweberconsulting.com/  *** Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Right before his story was released in episode five of NOBODY SHOULD BELIEVE ME, the father we referred to as “John” changed his mind about wanting to share his story anonymously after he learned a terrifying piece of news about his son. Now, Doug Welch shares the events that led up to his decision, where things stand in his family now, and what he wants his kids to know. Coverage of the case against Mary Welch  https://www.kare11.com/article/news/investigations/mother-at-center-of-investigation-is-indicted/89-105671356 Detective Mike Weber’s arrest warrant for Mary Welch https://bit.ly/ArrestWarrent *** Buy Andrea's books here. To support the show, go to https://apple.co/nobodyshouldbelieveme  to listen on Apple Podcasts and just click ‘Subscribe’ on the top of the show page to listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe. *** Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As Andrea contemplates what the future looks like for survivors of Munchausen by Proxy, she gets an unexpected message from two young women who’ve lived it. After appearing with Marc Feldman on a podcast, Andrea hears from twin-sisters who survived MBP. Liz and Erica Handt were taken from one terrifying situation to another when the foster mom who adopted them turns out to be abusive, telling the girls they had Fetal Alcohol Syndrome and dragging them from specialist to specialist. The twins' story is harrowing but ultimately hopeful as they're now thriving. * * * Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop  Buy Andrea's books here. To support the show, go to https://apple.co/nobodyshouldbelieveme  to listen on Apple Podcasts and just click ‘Subscribe’ on the top of the show page to listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com  The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here.  For more about the Handt twins: https://lotusesinbloom.com/  Erica’s Instagram: Erica Blake (Handt) (@erica_a_blake) • Instagram photos and videos  Liz’s Instagram: Liz | Mental Health + Healing (@lizhandt) • Instagram photos and videos  *** Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Andrea delves deep into her questions around the psychopathology of Munchausen by Proxy perpetrators. Floored by the similarities in the many cases she’s researched, she talks to two of the world's foremost experts on the disorder—Dr. Marc Feldman and Dr. Mary Sanders—about the characteristics, warning signs, and causes of the disorder that has upended the lives of so many people Andrea has spoken to throughout the course of the podcast. Why would a mother ever do this? What do they get from it? And most importantly, what could be done to stop them? Is it possible for someone who does these things to get treatment? * * * Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop  Buy Andrea's books here. To support the show, go to https://apple.co/nobodyshouldbelieveme  to listen on Apple Podcasts and just click ‘Subscribe’ on the top of the show page to listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe. *** Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com   The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Andrea has made an intense connection with Hope Ybarra's family, and asked experts, doctors, and the detective so many of her burning questions about Munchausen by Proxy. But she's become increasingly fixated on talking to Hope herself as she comes to realize that it may be her only chance to get the insights she needs. In this stunning season one finale, Andrea travels to Mountain Home, Idaho, to meet with Hope Ybarra. In this intense, emotional back-and-forth, we hear straight from Hope what life is like for her after being released from prison. We find out what she's up to and what she hopes for from the future. Hope listens to her own family—all of whom she's estranged from with the exception of Robin—talk about what she was like before everything fell apart. She insists that she still loves her children, despite what she did. We see the human being behind the monstrous acts that splashed Hope's story across headlines and landed her in prison for a decade.  Andrea asks Hope what might have been done to help her and what she might say to her younger self if she could go back. Finally, she tells Hope that if she really wants her family back, she should get treatment and offers to help her if she wants that.  Hope is friendly and warm in person, but Andrea is left with the unsettling truth that she hasn't changed.  * * * Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos:  @andreadunlop  Buy Andrea's books here. To support the show, go to https://apple.co/nobodyshouldbelieveme  to listen on Apple Podcasts and just click ‘Subscribe’ on the top of the show page to listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe.  For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com  *** Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Andrea and her Producer Tina at Larj Media talk about how the show came to be, the journey towards finding and talking with Hope Ybarra and what you can look forward to for season 2 of the show. *** Buy Andrea's books here. To support the show, go to https://apple.co/nobodyshouldbelieveme  to listen on Apple Podcasts and just click ‘Subscribe’ on the top of the show page to listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe.  *** Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In today's bonus episode, we share Andrea's unabridged conversation with Dr. Marc Feldman, one of the experts we heard from throughout season one of the show. Dr. Marc Feldman is a Clinical Professor of Psychiatry at the University of Alabama,Tuscaloosa and an internationally renowned expert on Munchausen by Proxy. He is the author of five books, more than one hundred peer-reviewed articles, and has appeared as an expert in dozens of television programs, print media, and documentaries throughout the world. Dr. Feldman is a longtime member of the APSAC’s MBP committee and originally nominated Andrea as a member.    More about Dr. Feldman:  https://www.munchausen.com/  Munchausen by Proxy is a serious and widely-misunderstood form of child abuse. It can result in a wide swath of destruction and trauma for everyone involved and lifelong devastation for survivors. Munchausen Support was created in collaboration with some of the world’s top experts and provides science- and fact-based information about Munchausen by Proxy. It is also intended to offer resources and support for professionals in the midst of a case, family members in crisis, and survivors seeking treatment. https://www.munchausensupport.com *** Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Buy Andrea's books here. To support the show, go to https://apple.co/nobodyshouldbelieveme  to listen on Apple Podcasts and just click ‘Subscribe’ on the top of the show page to listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Listen to Andrea’s full conversation with Dr. Jayme Coffman, the child abuse pediatrician who runs the CARE team at Cook Children’s Hospital in Tarrant County where much of our stories takes place. She shares with us the behind-the-scenes process of determining abuse, what it’s like for doctors to get caught up in one of these cases, and why this abuse is so misunderstood.  Cook Children’s: https://www.cookchildrens.org/   Munchausen Support: munchausensupport.com Buy Andrea's books here. To support the show, go to https://apple.co/nobodyshouldbelieveme  to listen on Apple Podcasts and just click ‘Subscribe’ on the top of the show page to listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe. *** Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Listen to Andrea’s full conversation with Dr. Mary Sanders, director of child & adolescent psychology at Stanford and nationally recognized expert on Munchausen by Proxy. We discuss the possibilities of treatment for perpetrators as well as the effect this abuse has on victims and how they can heal. The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children: https://www.apsac.org/ Munchausen Support: munchausensupport.com *** Buy Andrea's books here. To support the show, go to https://apple.co/nobodyshouldbelieveme  to listen on Apple Podcasts and just click ‘Subscribe’ on the top of the show page to listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe. *** Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this bonus episode my producer Tina Nole from Larj Media and I respond to some of the questions that came up about Season 1, break down a few myths about Munchausen Syndrom By Proxy (Medical Child Abuse) and we’ll preview what’s coming up June 15th when we release Season 2 of the show. To support the show, go to https://apple.co/nobodyshouldbelieveme  to listen on Apple Podcasts and just click ‘Subscribe’ on the top of the show page to listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe. *** Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In Season 2, we head back to Tarrant County, Texas to explore the case of Brittany Phillips, a mother who medically abused her child in plain sight. For years, Brittany lied about her daughter Alyssa’s medical history and symptoms and subjected her to unnecessary medical procedures. Family members, healthcare providers, and even Child Protective Services knew something was wrong, but no one could figure out how to stop her.   Detective Mike Weber, the lead investigator who helped put Hope Ybarra behind bars, is on the case once again; and we hear from more top experts in the field, family members, and survivors to help us understand the complexities of this abuse.   Andrea will also reveal much more about her own family situation, unpacking the case against her sister that she touched on in Season 1.   To support the show, go to https://apple.co/nobodyshouldbelieveme  to listen on Apple Podcasts and just click ‘Subscribe’ on the top of the show page to listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe. *** Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Note: This episode contains sensitive content related to child abuse. Listener discretion is advised.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Everyone in Brittany Philips’ life was worried about her daughter, Alyssa. Brittany was always talking about her child’s health issues, and complaining that she couldn’t keep food down—but it didn’t add up with what people were seeing. Still, no one quite knew how to intervene. It didn’t help that Brittany was a bulldozer, bullying anyone who disagreed with her and always causing maximum drama.    Season 2 delves deep into a chilling case that exposes the shocking realities of Munchausen by Proxy and how it can show up. Unlike the charismatic manipulator in Season 1, Hope Ybarra, Brittany didn't need charm; she used force to get what she wanted. She wasn’t fooling anyone, but it still felt like no one could stop her.   *** Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop   Buy Andrea's books here. To support the show, go to https://apple.co/nobodyshouldbelieveme  to listen on Apple Podcasts and just click ‘Subscribe’ on the top of the show page to listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com  Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here. *** Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! *** Note: This episode contains sensitive content related to child abuse. Listener discretion is advised.  *** Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Heather Harris was one of many friends who was concerned about Brittany’s desperate need for attention for her daughter’s medical issues, and her inconsistent reports about Alyssa’s eating issues. In this episode we peel back the inner workings of Child Protective Services in the state of Texas, and uncover a deeply flawed system that despite many social workers’ best effort, leaves victims of medical child abuse in harm’s way. After a shocking incident pushed Heather to report Brittany to CPS, she was dismayed when no one intervened. Little did she know her report was one of many made to the agency.  *** Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here. To support the show, go to https://apple.co/nobodyshouldbelieveme  to listen on Apple Podcasts and just click ‘Subscribe’ on the top of the show page to listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com *** Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here. *** Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! *** Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices