None Of The Above

Many have argued that NATO, the transatlantic alliance forged at the dawn of the Cold War, is merely a vestige of another era. But Russia’s invasion of Ukraine thrust NATO back into the spotlight, and reignited debates about the value and strategic imperatives of America’s alliances. With a distinguished career of over three decades in the United States Navy, Admiral James Stavridis (Ret.) was the 16th Supreme Allied Commander of NATO. He oversaw operations in Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, and the Balkans. He has since become an author of 10 nonfiction books and two novels.  In this episode, Admiral Stavridis talks about his motivations for venturing into the world of fiction, and the value of his novels as cautionary tales about the threats facing the nation. Drawing on historical parallels and his professional experience, he offers lessons for foreign policy leaders, discusses the value of NATO, and explores the transformative impact of technology on warfare.  

In December 2023, South Africa brought human rights law into the fold of the Israel-Hamas war when it filed a genocide case against Israel in the World Court. South Africa’s unprecedented move sparked conversation surrounding the line between collateral damage and indiscriminate bombing campaigns. In this extended cut of a recent episode of None of the Above, the Institute for Global Affairs’ Mark Hannah sits down with Kenneth Roth, who was executive director of Human Rights Watch for more than three decades. He shares his perspectives on Israeli violence enacted against Gazans, South Africa’s arguments to the World Court, the legal application of genocide, and international law.

The Houthis continue to attack commercial vessels in the Red Sea amid Israel’s assault in Gaza. This Yemen-based political and military organization says its disruption of international shipping is a response to Western support for Israel. It likely also hopes its attacks will revitalize flailing domestic support within war-torn Yemen.  The United States is no stranger to the Houthis. Since the start of Yemen’s civil war in 2014, Washington has backed a Saudi-led coalition fighting the Iran-backed organization. More recently, the United States has launched airstrikes against the Houthis to try to deter future Red Sea attacks — though President Biden acknowledges the bombing to be ineffective. In this episode of None of the Above, the Institute for Global Affairs’ Mark Hannah sits down with Alexandra Stark to help us better understand the Houthis, the illogic of America’s approach to Yemen, and the lessons for dealing with the Houthis in the future. Alexandra Stark is an associate policy researcher at the RAND Corporation. Her research focuses on Middle East security and cooperation. Prior to that she was a senior researcher at New America. Her book, The Yemen Model: Why US Policy Has Failed in the Middle East is set for release in April by Yale University Press. Show Notes Alexandra Stark, “Don’t Bomb the Houthis: Careful Stop the Attacks in the Red Sea,” (Foreign Affairs, January 11, 2024) Alexandra Stark, The Yemen Model: Why US Policy Has Failed in the Middle East (Yale University Press, 2024)    

Last month the International Court of Justice ordered Israel to take measures to prevent acts of genocide, and protect the human rights of Gazans. Almost everything about the case has generated controversy, from South Africa’s invocation of the Genocide Convention to the court’s decision not to order a ceasefire. In this episode of None Of The Above, the Institute for Global Affairs’ Mark Hannah sits down with Kenneth Roth, who was executive director of Human Rights Watch for more than 30 years, and Dr. Mia Swart, an expert in international law, transitional justice, and human rights law. They share their perspectives on this landmark case, the role of South Africa and the United States in upholding international law, and the challenges of enforcement.

Next month will mark two years since Russia invaded Ukraine after amassing over 100,000 troops at the border. As we look ahead, we ask: What has victory in Ukraine come to symbolize for the Biden administration’s foreign policy? Are Ukraine and its partners making full use of diplomacy to bring an end to the war? And how might the 2024 Presidential election shift the conversation around US interests in Ukraine?  In this episode of None Of The Above, the Institute for Global Affairs’ Mark Hannah consults with Samuel Charap, a senior political scientist at the RAND Corporation and Alex Ward, national security reporter and anchor of POLITICO’s “National Security Daily” newsletter. They discuss the trajectory of the war, how President Biden and his team have approached it, and the stakes involved for all parties.  

It’s always difficult to gather and verify information in times of armed conflict. But recently that task has gotten much harder. From Russia’s invasion of Ukraine to Israel’s ground invasion of Gaza, journalists and consumers alike are inundated with intentionally misleading images, information, and narratives. The media ecosystem has become increasingly treacherous, with old photos and quotations taken out of their original context and offered as evidence in conflicts today. In this episode of None Of The Above, the Institute for Global Affairs’ Mark Hannah sits down with Dr. Claire Wardle, an expert on misinformation, and Steven Lee Myers, a veteran foreign and national security correspondent for The New York Times currently covering misinformation. Together they discuss how misinformation and disinformation spread, and the challenges they pose for accessing accurate information in times of conflict.

Today marks one month since the Palestinian militant organization Hamas launched a brutal terrorist attack on Southern Israel. Before October 7th, the Biden administration’s foreign policy had largely centered on Europe and Asia. Issues of Palestinian self-determination and self rule appeared to be something the administration (and Israel) were eager to avoid. Now, in the wake of Hamas’ attacks, Palestine’s political future and the United States’ long term strategy for the Middle East have become increasingly unclear. In this episode of None Of The Above, the Eurasia Group Foundation’s Mark Hannah sits down with political analyst and public opinion expert Dahlia Scheindlin, and US Program director of the International Crisis Group, Michael Wahid Hanna to discuss the immediate causes of the war, and evaluate Israeli and US strategic objectives. Effective policy, they argue, will require clear-eyed consideration of the longstanding conflicts at the root of today’s violence.

With the 2024 presidential election on the horizon, the Biden administration’s foreign policy decisions will face increasing scrutiny. Some think foreign policy decisions should be exempt from regular public debate. To gain a better understanding of the concerns and priorities of voting age Americans, we at the Eurasia Group Foundation compiled our sixth annual survey of Americans’ foreign policy views.  In this episode of None Of The Above, Mark is joined by his EGF colleagues, Zuri Linetsky and Lucas Robinson, as well as media consultant Deepika Choudhary to dive into our annual report of Americans’ foreign policy views. Across partisan, age, and racial differences, our survey reveals a public attentive to global realities, and supportive of recalibrating America’s international activities. Though this survey data was collected before the outbreak of violence in Israel and Gaza, we think the discussion provides useful context for how Americans’ view their country’s role in this turbulent time.

The United Nations, founded in the aftermath of history’s most destructive war, is the world’s premier forum for international diplomacy. But is the UN a vestige of a bygone era? This year’s session of the UN General Assembly, which today closes general debate, has been the site of much frustration over the war in Ukraine, the stalled progress of the 2030 Sustainable Development Goals, and the lack of representation for the global south.    The world has changed since the end of World War II, and as this episode’s guest, Suzanne Nossel, argues, so too must the UN. Currently CEO of PEN America, Suzanne served in the UN under both the Clinton and Obama administrations as Deputy to the US Ambassador for UN Management and Reform and Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for International Organizations. Suzanne joins the Eurasia Group Foundation’s Mark Hannah to reimagine the UN to better address these challenges and others. To listen to more episodes or learn more about None Of The Above, go to www.noneoftheabovepodcast.org. To learn more about the Eurasia Group Foundation, please visit www.egfound.org and subscribe to our newsletter. Suzanne Nossel currently serves as the CEO of PEN America, a leading human rights and free expression organization. Her prior career has spanned roles in both the Clinton and Obama administrations as part of the US Mission to the United Nations.

Yesterday’s anniversary of the 2001 terrorist attacks on the United States has us turning to the legacy of America’s post-9/11 wars. As veterans reflect on their time in Iraq and Afghanistan, and as the country contemplates the impact of these wars on the morale of the US military and America’s standing in the world, literature offers a powerful way to make meaning from war’s experience. From Ernest Hemingway to Kurt Vonnegut and J.D. Salinger, the author-soldier has long been a fixture in American literature. In this episode of None Of The Above, the Eurasia Group Foundation’s Mark Hannah is joined by two of his favorite contemporary novelists, veterans Elliot Ackerman and Phil Klay. Books, they argue, are more than a medium to unpack trauma and untangle the web of emotions war provokes: war stories have implications for the battles we have yet to fight. Elliot Ackerman is a veteran of the US Marine Corps who served in Iraq and Afghanistan. Elliot is the author of several novels, including Halcyon (2023) and 2034 (2021), which he co-wrote with Admiral James Stavridis.  Phil Klay is a veteran of the US Marine Corps who served in Iraq. Phil is the author of the novels Redeployment (2014) and Missionaries (2020). His most recent book is Uncertain Ground: Citizenship in the Age of Endless, Invisible War (2022). To listen to more episodes or learn more about None Of The Above, go to www.noneoftheabovepodcast.org. To learn more about the Eurasia Group Foundation, please visit www.egfound.org and subscribe to our newsletter.

As President Biden meets this week with America’s NATO allies at the Vilnius Summit, attention has turned to Sweden’s and Ukraine’s prospects for the Atlantic alliance. Europe is not the only continent where America’s military commitments are up for debate, however. On this episode of None Of The Above, we look further east to America’s alliance in the Asia-Pacific. More specifically, its often fraught relationship with one of its longest-standing allies — the Philippines. Caught between the United States and China, Manila — which edged closer to Beijing during the presidency of Rodrigo Duterte — has recently doubled down on its alliance with Washington. Earlier this year, it expanded the US military’s access to bases there. It is fast becoming the focal point of America’s efforts to counter China in the South China Sea. But is this such a good idea? This week’s guest, the Quincy Institute’s Sarang Shidore, tells the Eurasia Group Foundation’s Mark Hannah this alliance — and America’s military footprint across Asia in general —  may be a liability worth reconsidering. Sarang Shidore is the director of studies and senior research fellow at the Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft. His research focuses on Asia, the Global South, and the geopolitics of climate change. To listen to more episodes or learn more about None Of The Above, go to www.noneoftheabovepodcast.org. To learn more about the Eurasia Group Foundation, please visit www.egfound.org and subscribe to our newsletter.  

In early December, just weeks after Benjamin Netanyahu and his Likud party won Israel’s parliamentary election (again), US Secretary of State Antony Blinken remarked that America’s commitment to Israel has “never been stronger.” The incoming governing coalition that Netenyahu is forming is expected to be the most right-wing in Israeli history. What does this mean for Israel and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict? Does this change US policy vis-à-vis one of its closest partners in the Middle East? This week, guest host and EGF research fellow Zuri Linetksy speaks with journalists Neri Zilber and Muhammad Shehada who help us break down what affect Bibi’s new government might have on Israeli-Palestinian relations, and offer thoughts on what the United States can do to mitigate potential violence coming from both sides of the Green Line.   Neri Zilber is an Israeli journalist and analyst living in Tel Aviv, and host of the Israel Policy Pod.   Muhammad Shehada is a Palestinian journalist and analyst from the Gaza Strip. To listen to more episodes or learn more about None Of The Above, go to www.noneoftheabovepodcast.org. To learn more about the Eurasia Group Foundation, please visit www.egfound.org and subscribe to our newsletter.

The United Nations estimates around half of Afghanistan’s population – nearly 20 million people – faces acute hunger. The ongoing humanitarian crisis in Afghanistan follows the end of America’s twenty-year war and the withdrawal of all US troops in August 2021. In February, the Biden administration decided to freeze nearly $10 billion in assets belonging to the Afghan central bank in order to prevent money going into the hands of the Taliban.    Are US policies exacerbating the humanitarian crisis in Afghanistan, and what does freezing of assets mean to accomplish? This week, the Eurasia Group Foundation’s Mark Hannah is joined by freelance journalist Matthieu Aikins and the co-founder of Unfreeze Afghanistan Masuda Sultan to better understand the current state of Afghanistan, President Biden’s decision to freeze Afghanistan assets in response to the Taliban’s takeover, and the ongoing plight of Afghans.    Matthieu Aikins is a contributing writer for the New York Times Magazine, and the author of The Naked Don’t Fear the Water: An Underground Journey with Afghan Refugees.    Masuda Sultan is an Afghan-American women’s rights activist and entrepreneur who has been working for over 20 years in support of women and girls in education, vocational training, and protection from violence.   Show notes: “Afghanistan: Nearly 20 million going hungry” (UN News, May 9, 2022) The Naked Don't Fear the Water: An Underground Journey with Afghan Refugees (Matthieu Aikins, February 22, 2022)

From the Crimean War of 1853 to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine this year, journalists, reporters, and the media have shaped the public’s understanding of war. But do the stories we read and the photos we see provide an impartial picture of the wars they document? As the Eurasia Group Foundation’s Mark Hannah recently explained in Foreign Policy, certain aspects of American war coverage—reliance on government sources and incentives to simplify geopolitics as battles between good and evil—have long compelled news organizations to tilt toward military action.   In this special episode of None Of The Above, host of WNYC’s On The Media Brooke Gladstone and Slate’s “War Stories” columnist Fred Kaplan, are interviewed by Mark at the American Academy in Rome. Together, in these excerpts from that conversation, they unpack the media’s coverage of Russia’s war on Ukraine and the biases which influence how the media understand and depict these conflicts.   To listen to previous episodes and learn more about None Of The Above, go to www.noneoftheabovepodcast.org. To learn more about the Eurasia Group Foundation, please visit www.egfound.org and subscribe to our newsletter.   Brooke Gladstone is a journalist and host of On the Media, a Peabody Award-winning podcast by WNYC Studios. Brooke is also the Rea S. Hederman Critic in Residence at the American Academy in Rome and the author of The Influencing Machine (2011) and The Trouble with Reality: A Rumination on Moral Panic in Our Time (2017).  Fred Kaplan is a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist and columnist for Slate, where he authors the “War Stories” column. Fred’s most recent book is The Bomb: Presidents, Generals, and the Secret History of Nuclear War (2020).

The Russian military withdrew from Bucha at the end of March, a suburb of Ukraine’s capital, Kyiv. Soon after, photos and stories revealed Russian atrocities, including the apparent intentional killing of civilians. This is sadly characteristic of the Russian way of war in other conflicts beyond Ukraine. Some, including President Biden, have accused Russia of committing genocide in Ukraine. But even if Putin’s military is guilty of acts of genocide and war crimes, will the world actually be able to hold it accountable?    In this episode of None Of The Above, the Eurasia Group Foundation's Mark Hannah looks back at history with New York Times columnist Max Fisher to understand the roots of the Russian military’s targeting of civilians and past efforts to bring war criminals to justice. Though prosecuting those in power is difficult, Max argues justice might come in other forms.   To listen to previous episodes and learn more about None Of The Above, go to www.noneoftheabovepodcast.org. To learn more about the Eurasia Group Foundation, please visit www.egfound.org and subscribe to our newsletter.

In October 2021, the United States and Mexico put an end to the Mérida Initiative—a thirteen-year, $3 billion security assistance package central to a new “war on drugs.” Despite years of weapons sales, military training, and intelligence sharing, the initiative failed to reduce crime and drug trafficking. Instead, violence and homicides increased throughout Mexico. Why? Our guests this week, Mexican movie star Diego Luna and scholar Ernesto López Portillo, argue America’s and Mexico’s militarized approach to security is to blame.    Recently back from Mexico where she explores the consequences of the Mérida Initiative, Eurasia Group Foundation senior researcher and producer Caroline Gray speaks with Diego and Ernesto about the US-Mexico drug war, the accountability problems that plague both countries, and what non-military solutions to insecurity in Mexico might look like.    Diego Luna is an actor, director, and producer who has starred in Narcos: Mexico, Rogue One: A Star War Story, and Y tu mamá también. He is a co-founder of Corriente De Golfo, a Mexico-based production company.    Ernesto López Portillo is the coordinator of the Citizen Security Program at Ibero-American University in Mexico City, where he researches policing and militarism.  To listen to more episodes or learn more about None Of The Above, go to www.noneoftheabovepodcast.org. To learn more about the Eurasia Group Foundation, please visit www.egfound.org and subscribe to our newsletter.

Saturday marked the nineteenth anniversary of the beginning of the second Iraq War—a war Congress never formally declared. Instead, just like with America’s invasion of Afghanistan, Congress passed an Authorization for Use of Military Force (AUMF). Together, these AUMFs provide the legal basis for the ongoing war on terror and have been loosely interpreted by every president since 2001 to authorize military action anywhere with little to no Congressional oversight. Though these AUMFs remain on the books today, the past year has seen a push by lawmakers from both sides of the aisle to reclaim Congress’s role in matters of war and peace—an issue that extends beyond America’s post 9/11 wars. Questions of Congressional oversight remain pertinent as the United States debates how to respond to Russia’s war in Ukraine.    This week, we’re revisiting our season two conversation with ​​Heather Brandon Smith and Rita Siemion, both experts on AUMFs and advocates for their repeal. They discuss the history of these AUMFs, prospects for reform under the Biden administration, and why repealing them is necessary to end America’s post-9/11 wars. 

This episode contains explicit language. On Monday, Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered troops into eastern Ukraine. This follows months of tensions precipitated by Russia’s mobilization of its military on the Ukrainian border. Putin’s order came shortly after a gruff speech in which he accused Ukraine of rejecting its historical links to Russia and asserted the independence of two breakaway regions — the self-declared People's Republics of Donetsk and Luhansk. In the week before the Kremlin’s orders, the Eurasia Group Foundation’s Mark Hannah spoke with journalists Nataliya Gumenyuk and Peter Pomerantsev, who help us better understand the history behind today’s crisis, Ukraine’s perseverance under the threat of invasion, and Putin’s seeming obsession with Ukraine.  To listen to more episodes or learn more about None Of The Above, go to www.noneoftheabovepodcast.org. To learn more about the Eurasia Group Foundation, please visit www.egfound.org and subscribe to our newsletter.

The 2022 Beijing Winter Olympics are underway and more than just athletic competition has drawn international attention. Amid calls for a complete boycott due to China’s crackdown on Hong Kong and its persecution of the Uyghurs and other vulnerable populations, the United States has issued a diplomatic boycott of the games.    On this episode of None of The Above, we revisit an important conversation between Isaac Stone Fish and Stephen Orlins, two China experts with divergent points of view on the US-China relationship. Against the backdrop of protests in Hong Kong and the Trump administration’s trade war with China in 2019, we discussed many of the issues and questions currently accentuated by the Olympics: How should the United States approach China, and how should the US respond to China’s human rights violations? To listen to more episodes or learn more about None Of The Above, go to www.noneoftheabovepodcast.org. To learn more about the Eurasia Group Foundation, please visit www.egfound.org and subscribe to our newsletter. Stephen Orlins is the president of the National Committee on United States-China Relations. Prior to that, he was the managing director of Carlyle Asia and the chairman of one of Taiwan's largest cable television and high-speed internet providers. Isaac Stone Fish is the founder and CEO of Strategy Risks. He is also a contributing columnist for The Washington Post, a visiting fellow at the Atlantic Council, and an adjunct instructor at New York University’s Center for Global Affairs.

Eight years after it annexed Crimea and instigated a civil war in Eastern Ukraine, Russia has mobilized 100,000 troops near the Ukrainian border. With the threat of a Russian invasion looming, negotiations between Washington and Moscow are at an impasse. Moscow’s demands, which call for a transformation of the US-backed security order in Europe, were summarily dismissed by Washington. But according to our guests this week, the authors of the recent Politico article, “How to Get What We Want From Putin,” there is still room for a diplomatic resolution.   On this episode of None Of The Above, The Eurasia Group Foundation’s Mark Hannah is joined by Thomas Graham and Rajan Menon, who provide a roadmap for negotiation which, combined with shrewd strategic thinking and skilled diplomacy, could not only quell the immediate crisis but lay the foundations for a more stable Europe.    To listen to more episodes or learn more about None Of The Above, go to www.noneoftheabovepodcast.org. To learn more about the Eurasia Group Foundation, please visit www.egfound.org and subscribe to our newsletter.   Thomas Graham is a distinguished fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations and a senior advisor at Kissinger Associates, Inc. During the George W. Bush administration, he was the senior director for Russia on the National Security Council. Rajan Menon is the director of the grand strategy program at Defense Priorities. He is also the Anne and Bernard Spitzer Professor of International Relations at City College of New York and a senior research scholar at the Saltzman Institute of War and Peace at Columbia University.