Religion on the Mind

In today’s episode, I’m joined by writer, rabbi, journalist and fellow “weird religious person” Jay Michaelson for a thought-provoking conversation that already has me scheming ways to have him back on the show! We articulate the tension between liberal theology and ecstatic spiritual experience: why do people whose politics we agree with have boring prayer services while the charismatic communities offer genuine transcendence amidst their rigid theology?  Jay opens up about overcoming his own "Christophobia" (yes, he wrote an article called "How I Finally Came to Accept Christ in My Heart"), and we dig into his concept of "small-r religion"—the intentional, piecemeal approach to meaning-making that liberal religious folks practice versus capital-R traditional religion. It gets juicy as we wrestle with whether this progressive, open-minded approach can actually compete with conservative religion's appeal in our current moment of nihilism and meaning crisis. Can pluralistic spirituality be effective at fighting back against the wide road of AI slop, economic despair, and rising authoritarianism?? I push back on Jay's darker assessments while he challenges my therapeutic optimism, and we land somewhere fascinating between acceptance, the narrow road, and what we can actually control. This one covers everything from Buddhist meditation to Trump to whether my hypothetical gay Christian clients need liberal churches. I hope you enjoy. Jay's Substack | Both/And with Jay Michaelson Jay's Book "God vs. Gay? The Reli­gious Case for Equality" Jay's Website | Jaymichaelson.net ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I sit down with Dr. Nathan Carlin, professor of medical humanities and author of The Secularization of Medicine, to explore his fascinating thesis that doctors have become the new priests of secular society. We trace how this shift began—from medieval cathedrals as the highest points in European cities to modern hospital skylines dominating places like Houston's Texas Medical Center, where people now make pilgrimages seeking salvation of the body rather than the soul. Nathan walks me through the historical intertwining of religion and medicine, from the original Hippocratic Oath invoking Apollo to the 1850s when the American Medical Association's code explicitly grounded medical ethics in religion, and how the 1960s-70s brought radical secularization alongside movements for patient rights and autonomy. We explore the moral complexities of medical decision-making through the haunting case of Dax, a burn victim who consistently demanded to die but was kept alive by doctors who believed they knew best, and examine Canada's controversial Medical Assistance in Dying (MAID) program, which now accounts for one in twenty deaths. Our conversation explores the tension between patient autonomy and other moral values, the vulnerability inherent in the doctor-patient relationship that mirrors the confessional booth, and why psychedelic research needs the institutional prestige of places like Johns Hopkins to gain legitimacy—a perfect example of medicine functioning as the new church. In the Patron-only second half, we discuss cases of medical fraud, vaccine skepticism and institutional trust, and why medicine needs practices of confession and forgiveness to repair the mistrust that plagues healthcare today. Dr. Carlin's Book | The Secularization of Medicine: Ritual, Salvation, and Prophecy Dr. Carlin's Faculty Page | Med.uth.edu/oep/nathan-carlin-ph-d ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We ease into today’s topic with a Top of Mind segment on two competing narratives: does having children make the future better? Or worse? From right-leaning fears of population collapse to left-leaning concerns about overpopulation and climate impact, both arguments rely on catastrophizing about opposing dystopian predictions, and I myself have not been immune to them. For our main interview, I’m joined by Kevin Kelly, founding editor of Wired magazine and author of the "thousand true fans" theory (yes, that Kevin Kelly), to explore his concept of "protopia"—a vision of the future that's neither utopian nor dystopian, but rather a steady 1-2% improvement compounded over time. We get into the weeds on process theology, the cosmic Christ appearing on trillions of planets, why we'll need a "catechism for robots" within 100 years, and how AI might actually make us better humans by forcing us to codify what "better than us" even means.  Kevin's technological optimism isn't naive—he fully acknowledges that more powerful technologies create more powerful problems—but he argues our capacity to solve problems consistently outpaces our ability to create them, and that technology itself carries something divine in how it expands the possibility space for human flourishing. From personal anxiety about parenthood to cosmic theology to the future of consciousness itself—this is exactly the kind of conversation we love to have on this show. Kevin Kelly's Website | Kk.org Article Mentions: https://skepticalscience.com/moving-away-high-end-emission-scenarios.html?utm_source=chatgpt.com ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In the continuation of this series examining how cognitive distortions impact our religious beliefs and experiences, I'm diving into one of the most pervasive distortions with returning guest Molly LaCroix: jumping to conclusions.  This thinking error shows up everywhere: in our relationships (Molly shares a perfect personal example involving this very podcast), our therapy practices, and especially in religious contexts. I break down the difference between evidence-based thinking and filling voids with negative assumptions, examining everything from Job's misguided friends to prosperity gospel theology.  We tackle some genuinely sticky questions: What's the difference between jumping to conclusions and taking a leap of faith? How do we hold beliefs provisionally while maintaining committed faith? And when does this cognitive distortion cross into spiritual abuse territory?  Drawing from evolutionary psychology, Christian tradition, and wisdom from Buddhism, Hinduism, and Islam, we land on something surprisingly hopeful—that both good therapy and ancient religious wisdom point us toward the same antidote: slow down, seek fuller information, and approach others with curiosity rather than suspicion.  Whether you're a therapist, a person of faith navigating deconstruction, or just someone who wants to stop catastrophizing every time a sent text goes unanswered, this conversation offers practical tools wrapped in deeper existential questions about certainty, ambiguity, and what it means to truly have faith. Molly's Website | ⁠Mollylacroix.com Un-Shaming Each Part of Ourselves (#197) Episode #123 with Heather Griffin | "Bible Truths," "Sanctified Common Sense," & "Evangelical Insta-Trust" ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We’re back with another Generation Gap Culture Hour featuring myself, Tony Jones and Josh Gilbert all representing our different generational viewpoints. As is our regular dynamic, this one kicks off with Tony disagreeing with something I say. We quickly get into discussing whether genetic analysis of historical figures like Hitler (yes, they sequenced his DNA from blood on a couch) actually tells us anything meaningful. Tony is skeptical, but I think the connection between genetics and legacy is fascinating in how it informs our understanding of nature versus nurture. We debate about whether or not the word "pedophile" is being misused in coverage of the Epstein files, and why precision in language matters even when discussing despicable people. We cleanse our palates with meditative bushcraft videos served up by my five-year-old’s YouTube algorithm. In the Patreon-only second half we finish our discussion on the re-emergence of "pedophile" into public discourse, debate whether modern guys are too self-conscious about nudity in locker rooms (with Tony lamenting his gym now requires swimsuits in the hot tub), and I somehow end up moderating while Tony and Josh argue about whether co-ed locker rooms would have more or fewer social norms. ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Definitely don’t play this one with kids around! I’m sitting down with journalist Ellen Huet to explore the rise and fall of OneTaste, a San Francisco wellness startup that built an empire around "orgasmic meditation"—a 15-minute sexual practice wrapped in spiritual language and trademark Silicon Valley business savvy.  Ellen, who wrote the exposé that helped trigger an FBI investigation and whose book Empire of Orgasm releases tomorrow, walks me through how founder Nicole Dadone created a company that promised enlightenment through sexuality, borrowed heavily from Buddhist and tantric traditions (while naming their practice "OM"), and attracted a devoted following among tech workers and entrepreneurs. We get deep into the “ick” of how spirituality, commerce, and exploitation all worked together, discussing how implicit manipulation can be more powerful than explicit demands, why people stayed despite red flags, and how OneTaste's playbook mirrors both traditional cult dynamics and the modern wellness influencer industrial complex.  From "unconditional sex" experiments to forced labor convictions, this conversation reveals how spiritual abuse operates in startup culture and why the future of cult-like control might look less like rural communes and more like your Instagram feed.  Fair warning: this episode includes frank discussion of sexual practices and exploitation. ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Matthew Burdette—Episcopal priest, theologian, and editor—joins me for a wide-ranging conversation about theology and culture. We cover a little bit of everything in this one! Matthew begins by telling me about his theology of culture, and how his approach allows God to remain distinct from culture while still being relevant to everything. We look at how both liberal and conservative Christianity can fail when they focus too much on either human goodness or human sinfulness.  Matthew also challenges common assumptions about power and privilege, arguing that gestures like land acknowledgments or other virtue signals can often mask—rather than address—real authority, and we wrestle with thorny questions about immigration, marriage, and what it means to bear the "cross" of Christian ethics in a world of undeniable trade-offs.  In the Patron-only second half, we discuss how paternalism—from COVID policies to climate change messaging to my own admitted tendency to peoples tendency to manage others anxiety for them—undermining both personal relationships and democratic governance. Matt's Substack | Matthewburdette.substack.com ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm sitting down with my friend of 12 years, Sara Billups, to talk about her brand new book Nervous Systems—and all the many meanings implied in its title.  We start with how anxiety gets passed down through generations. Sara shares about her wonderfully neurotic Jewish father and frequent medical “scares” that shaped her nervous system before she could even articulate a worry.  But this isn't just another Seinfeld episode or therapy session about family patterns—Sara takes us into how anxiety operates at three interconnected levels: our individual bodies, the church body that's absorbed America's cultural panic instead of offering an alternative, and our body politic that's turned every election into an apocalypse.  Sara introduces me to a counterintuitive Jesuit practice called "holy indifference" that she discovered through nine months of Ignatian spiritual exercises, which maps perfectly onto OCD treatment principles.  We wrestle with impossible questions like whether progressive Christians should keep reaching across the aisle to conservatives when the stakes feel existential and whether learning to lose—politically, personally, physically—might be the only way to stay sane in a world that's convinced every loss is the end of democracy. Sarah's Book | Nervous Systems: Spiritual Practices to Calm Anxiety in Your Body, the Church, and Politics Sarah's Substack | BITTER SCROLL Sarah's Podcast | That's The Spirit Previous Episode with Sara | Orphaned by Evangelicalism (#175) ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today I’m joined by my brother-in-law Cameron Reed and fellow therapist Gabe Cortez to explore fiction through the lens of psychology and spirituality. We’re planning a series of conversations on Religion & Fiction in which we look at literary short stories and make the case for why fiction matters—not as escapism, but as an essential way of understanding ourselves, building empathy, and accessing truths that nonfiction simply can't reach.  We start by discussing the benefits of fiction broadly and how stories allow us to experience and reflect on life. We get into how reading fiction has shaped our understanding of everything from sibling relationships to spiritual experience, as well as Jesus’ preference for parables over doctrine.  To set the scene for today’s short story, I share an embarrassing college-era memory of coming home to lecture my mom about selling her jewelry after reading Howard Zinn, and Cam and Gabe confess their own pretentious homecoming moments as well.  Then we turn to Alice Walker's brilliant 1973 short story "Everyday Use," dissecting a family drama about quilts, heritage, and what it truly means to revere the sacred objects of our past—a story that hits differently when you've been the know-it-all child returning home with new ideas about God, justice, and the world. In the Patron-only second portion of the episode, we apply these ideas directly to Walker's story, exploring themes of incarnational theology, appropriation versus appreciation, and the quiet transformation of the story's most overlooked character. Free Copy of the Short Story | Everyday Use by Alice Walker ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It’s a Religion News Roundup with podcaster and theologian Mason Mennenga, where we discuss the latest in religion-related current events. In this first episode trying out this new format, we explore why young people seem more open to spirituality than millennials were at their age, discuss clergy getting pepper-sprayed while protesting ICE detention centers, and unpack the wild story of gay billionaire Peter Thiel giving ticketed lectures about the Antichrist in San Francisco. We also chuckle at biblical comedy series called The Promised Land and analyze the surprising data showing Gen Z might be flattening the secularization curve.  Along the way, Mason and I test our friendship with jokes about his far-left politics versus my centrist tendencies, debate whether progressive Christianity is just politics in disguise, and somehow end up discussing why good climate news isn't making headlines. We also discover that Mason's faith actually drives his politics more than I expected, and I admit my own confidence in eschatological hope has diminished over the years.  It's a wide-ranging conversation that's equal parts serious theological reflection on current events and playful banter between two friends who've finally matured enough to publicly podcast together. Mason's Website | Masonmennenga.com Articles Mentioned: https://religionnews.com/2025/10/21/is-there-religious-revival-among-gen-z/ https://thepromisedlandseries.tv/ https://religionnews.com/2025/10/21/after-clergy-arrests-religious-pushback-to-ice-expands-in-chicago/ https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/oct/10/peter-thiel-lectures-antichrist?utm_source=chatgpt.com ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I sit down with musician John Mark McMillan for an exclusive conversation about something I never thought I'd see—one of contemporary Christian music's most boundary-pushing artists stepping away from the touring life after nearly 20 years on the road.  What starts as a discussion about the brutal economics of modern music—the streaming pennies, the oversaturated venue landscape, the mounting tour costs—quickly becomes something richer: a meditation on what music is actually for.  John Mark shares about a wild night in a Belfast pub where strangers went from wanting to fight him to nearly kissing him (he declined), and how this experience crystallizes his vision for what comes next. We explore why performing the same song 50 times for 50 different crowds might be less transformative than gathering the same people in the same room week after week, why the death of the album as an art form matters, and what it looks like to trade reach for depth.  If you've ever wondered whether the music industry's evolution has cost us something essential about human connection—or if you're just curious what makes an artist walk away from the only income they've known since 2006—this conversation will give you plenty to think about. Johnmarkmcmillan.com Previous Episodes with John: (#270) John Mark McMillan: Faith & Doubt (#316) Redefining Success with John Mark McMillan & Thomas Torrey ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Here's a little update after our weekend in St. Paul, MN for Theology Beer Camp 2025. See you on Monday with our regular episode! ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm launching a new series diving deep into cognitive distortions—those sneaky thinking errors we all fall into—and exploring how they show up at the intersection of psychology and religion.  In this first episode, I tackle "Should/Must statements" with research psychologist Laird Edman. We go way beyond the therapy textbooks to explore how these rigid internal rules can either guide us toward our values or trap us in cycles of shame and perfectionism, examine why our brains evolved to be so rule-obsessed in the first place, and dig into the messy territory of spiritual abuse, purity culture, and religious scrupulosity. We also venture into how different faith traditions—from Orthodox Judaism to Islam to Christianity—grapple with the balance between divine standards and human fallibility.  Whether you're wrestling with unrealistic expectations in your faith community, trying to understand OCD and religious anxiety, or just curious about finding that sweet spot between perfectionism and permissiveness, this conversation offers both psychological insight and practical tools for a more grace-filled approach to life. Plus, Laird shares some surprisingly vulnerable stories about altar calls and guitar playing that'll make you rethink what "good enough" really means. Laird's Website | ⁠Lairdedman.com⁠ ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I sit down with John Hawthorne, retired Christian university sociology professor and author of The Fearless Christian University, to unpack the troubling martyrdom narrative emerging around Charlie Kirk's assassination.  We explore how Kirk is being weaponized as an icon by Christian nationalist ambassadors while everyday adherents struggle to make sense of senseless violence through familiar theological frameworks. John and I compare the Kirk situation to George Floyd—not as moral equivalents, but as examples of how viral footage of violent deaths gets absorbed into competing political narratives that say more about our fractured media ecosystem than the victims themselves.  We dig into why evangelicals are particularly susceptible to martyrdom narratives (suffering must have divine purpose), how the attention economy incentivizes crisis merchants on both left and right, and why the complete breakdown of shared civic discourse leaves people feeling they have no choice but to retreat into their tribal identities.  The conversation gets uncomfortably honest about how both sides manufacture heroes from tragedy, and why understanding the psychology of the adherents—our neighbors, family members, and clients—matters more than dissecting the cynical ambassadors orchestrating it all. ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You Have Permission is now Religion on the Mind! Look for our updated artwork in your podcast feed and listen to this episode for more about what you can expect with the new name. In this episode, I sit down with Zoë Bernard, a writer and journalist who wrote a fascinating piece about Christianity's surprising resurgence in Silicon Valley. I share my own experience growing up evangelical in the Valley during the dot-com era—a time when religion, especially Christianity, felt distinctly uncool in tech circles. Zoë and I explore how dramatically things have shifted: where tech leaders once kept their faith quiet or embraced new atheism, figures like Peter Thiel and Elon Musk now publicly identify with Christianity, and startups in places like El Segundo are hosting Bible studies. We dig into what's driving this change—from the moral complexity of working in AI and defense tech, to the perceived failures of "wokeism" as a secular replacement for religion, to the hollow feeling many successful tech workers experience despite their wealth.  I push back on some of the tensions I see between Silicon Valley's uber-capitalism and Jesus's actual economic teachings, while Zoë offers insights from her time embedded with young Christian entrepreneurs who are reshaping tech culture.  We close by considering how AI might fundamentally alter spirituality itself—a conversation we'll definitely need to continue. Zoe's Website | Zoe-bernard.com Zoe's Article | https://archive.vanityfair.com/article/2025/4/god-complex ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It’s a new name, new art… and the rest is pretty much the same content you know and love on the overlap of psychology, religion and spirituality. My teammates Josh Gilbert and Joy Vetterlein join me for a quick chat about our rebrand of this podcast (It’s a glow-up, but Dan wants everyone to know those are Joy’s words and not his words). We talk about why the change now, what it represents in the context of the culture at large and share about upcoming series and episodes in the works. Listen in and keep an eye out for new artwork in your podcast feed! ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: dan@religiononthemind.com Religion on the Mind Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by Nick Luevano Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Friend of the pod Tripp Fuller joins me in full Dodgers gear (the audacity!) to discuss why the doctrine of original sin desperately needs a comeback—not the toxic version that told us we couldn't trust our own emotions or experiences, but a robust theological framework that actually explains the mess we're living in. We unpack how the concept of original sin operates on three interconnected levels: individual, communal, and structural. We tear apart Augustine's outdated biology while rescuing his psychological insights, trace the snowball effect of violence from Cain's first murder through the Tower of Babel, and discover why progressive Christians who rail against systemic injustice are actually doing theology whether they realize it or not.  Along the way, we somehow manage to argue about Sam Harris, the military-industrial complex, global capitalism, and whether America is an evil empire or just another flawed superpower trying not to blow up the world.  If you've ever wondered why humans keep doing terrible things despite our best intentions, or why your evangelical upbringing left you allergic to the very doctrine that might actually help you understand structural oppression, this conversation is for you. Come to Theology Beer Camp 2025 Listen to Homebrewed Christianity ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Attention YHP Listeners: Starting in October, the podcast You Have Permission will change its name to Religion on the Mind. This rebrand will come with new artwork and focus more broadly on the overlap of Psychology, Religion & Spirituality. We look forward to telling you more in the coming days… stay tuned! I sit down with previous guest Matt Naylor from the Milkless podcast to explore a disturbing pattern he discovered through a simple Google experiment: searching for public figures known for embracing violence and cruelty, then adding "father" to see what emerges. From Elon Musk to Joe Rogan to JD Vance, the batting average for abuse, abandonment, and alcoholism is striking.  We dig into the neuroscience behind early childhood attachment, examining how those first six months of life literally wire our brains for how we perceive safety in the world. Matt shares research on rat mothers who groom their babies differently and how those early experiences shape everything from stress response to longevity—findings that translate directly to human development. We explore the unique roles fathers play in transmitting worldview and values, diving into attachment research that shows father-child relationships are particularly crucial for managing externalizing behaviors like aggression and rule-breaking.  The conversation takes a personal turn as Matt reflects on his own family history and his determination to raise daughters who see the world as an enchanted place full of wonder rather than a threatening landscape requiring constant vigilance. The episode weaves together cutting-edge brain science, attachment theory, and deeply personal reflection on what it means to be a father in an increasingly polarized world. Take It Offline Question: What things do you find that you feel in your body about the world that don't line up with the way you wish you felt about the world? Milkless Podcast Child-father attachment and behavior problems (NIH) Christian Century interview with Vern Bengston about fathers and religious transmission to children ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this week’s Top of Mind segment, I address the Charlie Kirk assassination through cognitive distortions, calling out the all-or-nothing thinking that's turning him into either a blessed martyr or democracy's destroyer when the reality is more nuanced. I also push back against the dangerous idea that speech equals violence, pointing out that Kirk's murder serves as a stark reminder that actual bullets—not words—constitute real violence. For this week’s main episode, I’m going solo. I start by sharing how my own faith deconstruction included grappling with evolution. From questioning young earth creationism to eventually embracing evolutionary theory by my late twenties, and how evolution informs my therapeutic practice. Then, I go into how psychology has fully embraced evolutionary explanations across five key areas:  attachment theory (which appears across species and helped our ancestors survive through bonding),  shame (as an evolved social conscience that keeps us aligned with group norms),  sexual jealousy (as mate-guarding behavior found throughout the animal kingdom),  anxiety (as an overactive alarm system that kept our ancestors alive through hypervigilance), and  depression (as either energy conservation during adverse conditions or analytical rumination for solving complex problems.)  These evolutionary frameworks help reduce client shame by showing that their struggles aren't personal defects but rather ancient survival systems that are now mismatched to our modern world. In the Patreon-only portion, I dive deeper into attachment research with macaques, the neuroscience of shame and anxiety across species, mate-guarding behaviors from chimpanzees to humans, and two competing theories of depression—the hibernation model and analytical rumination hypothesis. Episodes Mentioned: Episode with Adrian Wyard | To Accept Theistic Evolution (#2) To Trust Science (#28) Evolution Myths & Long Lifespans in Genesis (#36) Who’s Afraid of Evolutionary Psychology? (#47) ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My fellow Beach Boys fan and returning guest David Zahl is back to discuss his provocative critique of self-optimization culture in his Plough Quarterly piece "Against Self-Optimization.” As someone who has maximized my morning routine to a science, I wrestle with my own efficiency obsession and David's argument that our machine-like language and relentless pursuit of becoming "optimized" versions of ourselves is fundamentally dehumanizing.  We look at how Jesus wasn't particularly efficient, how the wellness industry monetizes our unhappiness, and whether there's a difference between optimization and ruthless efficiency. Along the way, we touch on everything from Daft Punk's "Harder Better Faster Stronger" to the theology of death, the loneliness epidemic, and why churches that function too seamlessly might actually be missing the point.  David brings his characteristically poetic perspective to counter my more prose-like approach, creating a conversation that challenges both the Silicon Valley promise of endless self-improvement and the Christian concept of becoming our "ideal selves" — while somehow managing to work in references to Beach Boys, Radiohead, and why AI should do our laundry, not write our books. David's Piece Against Optimization David's Books Songs Played: Me Without You | "Red Cow & Dorothy" Daft Punk | Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger ___________________________________________ Follow Dan on IG: www.instagram.com/dancoke/ Or Twitter: twitter.com/DanKoch Faith deconstruction resources: www.soyouredeconstructing.com/ Join the Patreon for exclusive episodes (and more) every month: patreon.com/dankoch Email about the "sliding scale" for the Patreon: youhavepermissionpodcast@gmail.com YHP Patron-only FB group: tinyurl.com/ycvbbf98 Website: www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Join Dan's email list: www.dankochwords.com/ Artwork by sprungle.co/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices