Trust Me: Cults, Extreme Belief, and Manipulation

Today our guest is actor, musician, and now author Bethany Joy Lenz, whom we will just call Joy. Joy was the star of hit TV show One Tree Hill, and today she’s going to talk to us about how she was in a Christian cult the whole time she was filming the show. She’ll tell us about her upbringing and her career as a young actor, living in LA on her own and joining a small Bible study group that seemed like the perfect place to share a community with like-minded young Christian actors, and how a charismatic preacher named Les began showing up, leading the meetings, and changing everything. She’ll tell us about going to a house in Idaho they called the “God spa,” how she was drugged at the house (but did not realize until later), and how Les began to exert more and more control over her life - including isolating her from her family and taking over her finances, which were being drained without her knowledge the entire time she was working on a hit television show - and how the group’s hold over her led her to turning down her dream role in her dream Broadway play. Plus, how she discovered her money was gone and finally decided to leave. We have deals for you!!! Pretty Litter: Looking for the right litter? Go to PrettyLitter.com/trustme to save 20% on your FIRST order and get a free cat toy! Trust Me is sponsored by BetterHelp! Visit BetterHelp.com/trust to get 10% off your first month! Got your own story about cults, extreme belief, or abuse of power? Leave a voicemail or text us at 347-86-TRUST (347-868-7878) OR shoot us an email at TrustMePod@gmail.com INSTAGRAM @TrustMePodcast @oohlalola @meaganelizabeth11 TWITTER @TrustMeCultPod @ohlalola @baberahamhicks TIKTOK @TrustMeCultPodcast

Today, our guest is a friend who we'll call Anne. We discuss the connection between psychosis and cults, the mental changes Anne experienced when her episode started, the delusions that grew stronger, how she felt like she was communicating with spirits, the paranoia that grew inside her, and how a psychiatric mental health professional helped pull her out of it. We also compare the similarities of Anne's experience with that of many cult leaders, how coming out of a paranoid delusion is similar to coming out of a cult belief, and why it can be wise NOT to directly attack the beliefs of someone experiencing a psychotic episode. Trust Me is brought to you by Shopify! Upgrade your business! Sign up for your $1 per month trial period at shopify.com/trustme BUY OUR MERCH!! bit.ly/trustmemerch   Got your own story about cults, extreme belief, or abuse of power? Leave a voicemail or text us at 347-86-TRUST (347-868-7878) OR shoot us an email at TrustMePod@gmail.com INSTAGRAM @TrustMePodcast @oohlalola @meaganelizabeth11 TWITTER @TrustMeCultPod @ohlalola @baberahamhicks TIKTOK @TrustMeCultPodcast

Episode 15: Lola and Meagan interview Jitarth Jadeja, former QAnon believer. He tells the girls about how, despite being Australian, he first was a Bernie supporter, then shifted his support to Trump before becoming obsessed with conspiracy theories. They discuss the two years of his life in which he believed in Q, the moment he realized it was all a lie, how he'd have gone to the Capitol if he'd still believed, and what he suggests you should do if a loved one has fallen into QAnon. Original Airdate: 01/13/2021 BUY OUR MERCH!! bit.ly/trustmemerch  Got your own story about cults, extreme belief, or abuse of power? Leave a voicemail or text us at 347-86-TRUST (347-868-7878) OR shoot us an email at TrustMePod@gmail.com INSTAGRAM @TrustMePodcast @oohlalola @meaganelizabeth11 TWITTER @TrustMeCultPod @ohlalola @baberahamhicks TIKTOK @TrustMeCultPodcast

Today our guest is Gareth Gore, journalist and author whose new book Opus is about Opus Dei, an ultra-conservative Catholic sect, its harmful practices, its history of dark money, and its connections to modern day right-wing American politics. Gareth shares how he came to this story while investigating the shady practices at a bank in Spain, the history of the group and the leader’s goals of recruiting elite members of society, and its cultic practices like living in gender segregated homes with a highly controlled life and doing body mortification rituals. He tells about how members would groom kids as young as 11 or 12 to become people of influence in the group, how there are a number of reports of trafficking low-income young women and girls in various countries to exploit their labor at Opus Dei retreats, how some people were fed a cocktail of prescription drugs they didn’t need, and whether there’s been any accountability for these practices—which the group tries to officially distance themselves from. Plus, its ties to prominent US conservative activist Leonard Leo, who’s had an outsized influence in naming three of our current Supreme Court appointees and who’s tied to Project 2025, seeking to “crush liberal dominance.” Check out our great sponsors!! Quince: Get cozy in Quince's high-quality wardrobe essentials! Go to Quince.com/trust for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns! Shopify: Upgrade your business! Sign up for your $1 per month trial period at shopify.com/trustme  BUY OUR MERCH!! bit.ly/trustmemerch Got your own story about cults, extreme belief, or abuse of power? Leave a voicemail or text us at 347-86-TRUST (347-868-7878) OR shoot us an email at TrustMePod@gmail.com INSTAGRAM @TrustMePodcast @oohlalola @meaganelizabeth11 TWITTER @TrustMeCultPod @ohlalola @baberahamhicks TIKTOK @TrustMeCultPodcast

Today our guest is a woman whom we’ll call Norah. She tells us about a Facebook group for women in Los Angeles that ended up getting very culty. We’ll talk about why it was exciting in the beginning to connect with other women in a new way, how other subgroups began to form (including one secret, exclusive one) and how the admin, who we’ll call Vivian, seemed to be creating a space that prioritized social justice, equality, and helping other people—at first. Norah shares how the culture of the secret smaller group, Girls Night In, began to change, becoming a place where posting nudes was normalized and encouraged, sending them to other people’s boyfriends, and attacking anyone who deviated from Vivian’s ideas about what was good or bad. Plus, red flags that popped up along the way, controversies that made Norah begin to question, and how the group finally collapsed. Trust Me is sponsored by BetterHelp! Visit BetterHelp.com/trust to get 10% off your first month! BUY OUR MERCH!! bit.ly/trustmemerch   Got your own story about cults, extreme belief, or abuse of power? Leave a voicemail or text us at 347-86-TRUST (347-868-7878) OR shoot us an email at TrustMePod@gmail.com INSTAGRAM @TrustMePodcast @oohlalola @meaganelizabeth11 TWITTER @TrustMeCultPod @ohlalola @baberahamhicks TIKTOK @TrustMeCultPodcast

Today is part two with Demetria, survivor of the Oregon new age cult, Twin Ray. This week she shares more about the wild claims that the leaders made about their mystical backgrounds, how deeply rooted the culture of self blame was (including blaming one woman for her own cancer), and the massive property they purchased in Oregon which was financed by their followers. We talk about the dangers of the drugs they were giving people on spiritual retreats, when the cracks began to form in Demetria's belief system, and how important it was to feel her rage. Trust me is sponsored by ZocDoc! Find and book a top-rated doctor at Zocdoc.com/trustme and download the Zocdoc app for FREE! BUY OUR MERCH!! bit.ly/trustmemerch  Got your own story about cults, extreme belief, or abuse of power? Leave a voicemail or text us at 347-86-TRUST (347-868-7878) OR shoot us an email at TrustMePod@gmail.com INSTAGRAM @TrustMePodcast @oohlalola @meaganelizabeth11 TWITTER @TrustMeCultPod @ohlalola @baberahamhicks TIKTOK @TrustMeCultPodcast

Today we're joined by Demetria, survivor of an Oregon new age group called Twin Ray (not to be confused with Twin Flames). She describes the beginning of her spiritual journey including reading the works of Eckhart Tolle, how one specific online guru captured her imagination, and how this guru's partner made the claim that they were Twin Rays with access to special spiritual knowledge despite their questionable backgrounds. We discuss how they strictly controlled their followers' diets, made them take a mysterious elixir while on retreats, and how they made their sales pitch to them while they were under the influence. Check out our great sponsors! Shopify: Upgrade your business! Sign up for your one-dollar-per-month trial period at shopify.com/trustme  Prose: Be good to your hair! Get 50% off your first haircare subscription order at Prose.com/trust  BUY OUR MERCH!! bit.ly/trustmemerch Got your own story about cults, extreme belief, or abuse of power? Leave a voicemail or text us at 347-86-TRUST (347-868-7878) OR shoot us an email at TrustMePod@gmail.com INSTAGRAM @TrustMePodcast @oohlalola @meaganelizabeth11 TWITTER @TrustMeCultPod @ohlalola @baberahamhicks TIKTOK @TrustMeCultPodcast

This week is part two of a fascinating discussion with Joelle Tamraz, author of The Secret Practice: 18 Years on the Dark Side of Yoga. The story gets more wild! Joelle shares how her spiritual partner, Arun, became her husband, and how he brought her deeper into his world, including the strange visions he revealed to her. PLUS, the financial abuse, the cheating, the isolation from her family, and how Joelle eventually emerged from Arun's influence and moved on with her life. Check out our great sponsors!! Quince: Find your high-quality fall essentials! Go to Quince.com/trust for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns! CBDistillery: Get CBD with CLEAN ingredient! Visit CBDistillery.com and use code TRUST for 20% off! BUY OUR MERCH!! bit.ly/trustmemerch   Got your own story about cults, extreme belief, or abuse of power? Leave a voicemail or text us at 347-86-TRUST (347-868-7878) OR shoot us an email at TrustMePod@gmail.com INSTAGRAM @TrustMePodcast @oohlalola @meaganelizabeth11 TWITTER @TrustMeCultPod @ohlalola @baberahamhicks TIKTOK @TrustMeCultPodcast

Today is part one of our interview with Joelle Tamraz, author of the book The Secret Practice: 18 Years on the Dark Side of Yoga. She will tell us about her introduction to different yoga practices at a young age including TM, or transcendental meditation, the hunger she felt for a deeper spirituality that landed her in India when she was fresh out of Harvard, and how she met Arun, the self-proclaimed swami who was 35 years older than her and quickly became her spiritual teacher--and she’ll explain a bit about swami culture in India and the yoga world. She will also talk to us about how Arun made her feel special and important, eventually revealing that he was in contact with a series of beings he called “elders” that gave him privileged access to the spiritual realm, some of the ways he began to work his magic on her and why she was the perfect target, and how she felt when he revealed they had been married in another life—and should be married in this one, too. Check out our great sponsors!! Trust Me is sponsored by BetterHelp! Visit BetterHelp.com/trustme to get 10% off your first month. Shopify: Upgrade your business! Sign up for your $1 per month trial period at shopify.com/trustme  BUY OUR MERCH!! bit.ly/trustmemerch  Got your own story about cults, extreme belief, or abuse of power? Leave a voicemail or text us at 347-86-TRUST (347-868-7878) OR shoot us an email at TrustMePod@gmail.com INSTAGRAM @TrustMePodcast @oohlalola @meaganelizabeth11 TWITTER @TrustMeCultPod @ohlalola @baberahamhicks TIKTOK @TrustMeCultPodcast

Today’s guest is Sara Teitelman, tech consultant and author of a forthcoming book about tech who’s going to talk to us about the culty elements of technology. While Sara’s specialty lies more in optimization of the nonprofit workplace, we’re going to have more of a philosophical discussion about how we’re expected to just trust in our tech overlords without questioning - both the CEOs and the algorithms themselves - how it’s a sort of coercion to be handed algorithms and apps with no say in or understanding of how they work, and how AI factors into all of it. We’ll talk about the difficulty of reining in tech fast enough, how social media is dulling our critical thinking skills, and what she sees as a better approach to tech - and life in general. Trust me is sponsored by ZocDoc! Find and book a top-rated doctor at Zocdoc.com/trustme and download the Zocdoc app for FREE! BUY OUR MERCH!! bit.ly/trustmemerch Got your own story about cults, extreme belief, or abuse of power? Leave a voicemail or text us at 347-86-TRUST (347-868-7878) OR shoot us an email at TrustMePod@gmail.com INSTAGRAM @TrustMePodcast @oohlalola @meaganelizabeth11 TWITTER @TrustMeCultPod @ohlalola @baberahamhicks TIKTOK @TrustMeCultPodcast

In part 2 of our interview with Min Zhou, survivor of the Cultural Revolution and Distinguished Professor of Sociology and Asian American Studies at UCLA, we’re going to talk more about Professor Zhou’s personal experience. We’ll discuss why her dad was a target of the Red Guards, what it felt like knowing her family was in danger at such a young age, how many people were massacred in different parts of China, and the human cost of this mass hysteria, hatred-stoking, and groupthink originally led by Chairman Mao and his cult-like propaganda campaigns. She’ll tell us about her parents being both sent to labor camps, the ways she and her siblings survived with them gone, how the Cultural Revolution finally calmed down over time and how she ended up all the way out here in LA, finally achieving her dream of teaching. Check out our great sponsors!! Quince - High-Quality Closet Essentials: Check out Quince.com/trust for free shipping and 365-day returns Shopify - Grow Your Business: Sign up at Shopify.com/trustme for a $1 per month trial period BUY OUR MERCH!! bit.ly/trustmemerch  Got your own story about cults, extreme belief, or abuse of power? Leave a voicemail or text us at 347-86-TRUST (347-868-7878) OR shoot us an email at TrustMePod@gmail.com INSTAGRAM @TrustMePodcast @oohlalola @meaganelizabeth11 TWITTER @TrustMeCultPod @ohlalola @baberahamhicks TIKTOK @TrustMeCultPodcast

Today is part one with Min Zhou, Distinguished Professor of Sociology and Asian American Studies at UCLA, who also grew up during the Cultural Revolution: a decade of social chaos in China in the 1960s and 1970s where intellectuals, artists, and anyone perceived as representing capitalism or the "old ways" were persecuted and murdered in the hundreds of thousands or more. She’ll tell us about the backstory leading to this moment in history, who Mao Zedong was and what the country's climate was like when he began to use propaganda to create a cult of personality around himself, and the movement to “purge,” through psychological or violent means, anyone who disagreed with Mao’s policies. She’ll tell us about just how far the fanaticism and propaganda around Chairman Mao went, who the Red Guards were and how they initially seemed just like a cool subculture of young people when she was a kid - until they began to grow more destructive - and why her father was an immediate target. Plus, next week, we’ll discuss the labor camps her parents were sent to, and what it was like trying to survive while they were away. Check out our amazing sponsors this week!  CBDistillery: Reset your health! Visit CBDistillery.com and use code TRUST for 20% off! Pluto.TV: Summer movies and tv... Free! Pluto.TV BUY OUR MERCH!! bit.ly/trustmemerch Got your own story about cults, extreme belief, or abuse of power? Leave a voicemail or text us at 347-86-TRUST (347-868-7878) OR shoot us an email at TrustMePod@gmail.com INSTAGRAM @TrustMePodcast @oohlalola @meaganelizabeth11 TWITTER

In part 2 with Tia Levings, author of A Well-Trained Wife: My Escape from Christian Patriarchy, Tia she discusses how, in the midst of a church-sanctioned abusive relationship, motherhood began to change her beliefs - at first making her more zealous. She’ll talk about how her time trying to save her baby in the children’s hospital, plus working with women doctors and nurses, planted the seeds to help her imagine a world that wasn’t completely run by men. She discusses moving to more heavily patriarchal churches, how the churches may change but it’s all part of the same larger evangelical culture, and how she joined a more extreme and isolated one as her husband became more authoritarian. Plus, she touches on her recovery process, as well as the ongoing and growing danger of fundamentalist Christianity in the United States government. Trust me is sponsored by: BetterHelp - Online Therapy: Visit BetterHelp.com/TRUST to get 10% off your first month PrettyLitter - Less Mess, Less Odor: Go to PrettyLitter.com/trustme and use code "trustme" to save 20% off your first order and get a free cat toy Quince - High-Quality Closet Essentials: Check out Quince.com/trust for free shipping and 365-day returns Shopify - Grow Your Business: Sign up at Shopify.com/trustme for a $1 per month trial period BUY OUR MERCH!! bit.ly/trustmemerch Got your own story about cults, extreme belief, or abuse of power? Leave a voicemail or text us at 347-86-TRUST (347-868-7878) OR shoot us an email at TrustMePod@gmail.com INSTAGRAM @TrustMePodcast @oohlalola @meaganelizabeth11 TWITTER @TrustMeCultPod @ohlalola @baberahamhicks TIKTOK @TrustMeCultPodcast

Today is part one with Tia Levings, author of A Well-Trained Wife: My Escape from Christian Patriarchy. We talk about the church her family joined when she was young, how it was connected to Bill Gothard and the IBLP - which is why you may have seen her in the Amazon docuseries Shiny Happy People - how it grew more fundamentalist, and how she met her ex-husband Allen, who was abusive from the beginning. Tia tells us about the culture of domestic abuse in the heavily patriarchal evangelical communities, including practices like wife spanking, and how various church leaders would enable the abuse. Trust me is sponsored by ZocDoc! Find and book a top-rated doctor at Zocdoc.com/trustme and download the Zocdoc app for FREE! BUY OUR MERCH!! bit.ly/trustmemerch  Got your own story about cults, extreme belief, or abuse of power? Leave a voicemail or text us at 347-86-TRUST (347-868-7878) OR shoot us an email at TrustMePod@gmail.com INSTAGRAM @TrustMePodcast @oohlalola @meaganelizabeth11 TWITTER @TrustMeCultPod @ohlalola @baberahamhicks TIKTOK @TrustMeCultPodcast

In part two of our interview with Andrew Dunlop, sister of a perpetrator of Medical Child Abuse (aka Munchausen by Proxy) AND host of the podcast No One Should Believe Me, we discuss the red flags that made her family realize what was going on, why CPS showed up at her sister's door, the 73,000 pages of medical records she found for her five year old niece, and why it's extremely common for victims to NOT be separated from perpetrators. We also talk about the documenatry Take Care of Maya, why she believes the storytelling is misleading, how there are certain figures who claim that medical child abuse is NOT real, and the thing that still gives her hope. Check out our great sponsors! Shopify: Run a business? Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopify.com/trustme  ZocDoc: Find and book a top-rated doctor at Zocdoc.com/trustme and download the Zocdoc app for FREE! Need a place? Check out Apartments.com - THE place to find a place!  BUY OUR MERCH!! bit.ly/trustmemerch Got your own story about cults, extreme belief, or abuse of power? Leave a voicemail or text us at 347-86-TRUST (347-868-7878) OR shoot us an email at TrustMePod@gmail.com INSTAGRAM @TrustMePodcast @oohlalola @meaganelizabeth11 TWITTER @TrustMeCultPod @ohlalola @baberahamhicks TIKTOK @TrustMeCultPodcast

Today our guest is Andrea Dunlop, novelist and host of the podcast Nobody Should Believe Me, which is all about Munchausen by Proxy. She talks about Munchausen by Proxy, or medical child abuse, from a new point of view: what it’s like being related to the perpetrator. She’ll tell us about what her sister was like growing up, how she had exhibited Munchausen behaviors from a very young age, making herself seem to be sick before she had children, and how common that and other forms of deception are among people who later develop Munchausen by Proxy. We discuss how her sister faked a pregnancy and miscarriage, how the discovery of that messed with Andrea’s reality, the overlap of characteristics with people who exhibit signs of narcissism and psychopathy, and how actual medical misogyny complicates the whole thing. Check out our amazing sponsors!!! Prose: Need better haircare? Get an exclusive trial offer of 50% off your first subscription at Prose.com/trust  CBDistillery: Reset your health! Visit CBDistillery.com and use code TRUST for 20% off! BUY OUR MERCH!! bit.ly/trustmemerch   Got your own story about cults, extreme belief, or abuse of power? Leave a voicemail or text us at 347-86-TRUST (347-868-7878) OR shoot us an email at TrustMePod@gmail.com INSTAGRAM @TrustMePodcast @oohlalola @meaganelizabeth11 TWITTER @TrustMeCultPod @ohlalola @baberahamhicks TIKTOK @TrustMeCultPodcast

Today our guest is J. Wesley Boyd, psychiatrist, professor, and the director of education at the Harvard Medical School Center for Bioethics. He joins us to talk about Physician Health Programs, (or PHPs) which are under-the-radar programs that most states have. They're supposed to be a place where doctors who are struggling with substance abuse or mental illness can go to recover. But Wes shares how a shocking number of doctors who do *not* have a substance use disorder are coerced into for-profit inpatient treatment that rips them away from their lives and costs them tens of thousands of dollars of their own money. And if they don’t comply with every demand, they’ll very likely lose their medical licenses. We’ll talk about the benevolent origin of PHPs, the profit motives that corrupted so many them over time, examples of folks who experienced this coercion at the expense of their mental health and career, and how no one believes people who were victims of them - which is why it’s important for people like Wes, who worked for one as a psychiatrist, to speak out. And as always, we will discuss the exceptions, because of course there are people who have been helped by them too. Check out our great sponsors!! Pretty Litter: Keep tabs on your cat’s health AND keep the odors down! Go to PrettyLitter.com/trustme and use code "trustme" to save 20% on your first order AND get a free cat toy! Quince: Need high quality essentials? Go to Quince.com/trust for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns! Trust Me is sponsored by BetterHelp! Visit BetterHelp.com/trust to get 10% off your first month! Shopify: Run a business? Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopify.com/trustme  BUY OUR MERCH!! bit.ly/trustmemerch  Got your own story about cults, extreme belief, or abuse of power? Leave a voicemail or text us at 347-86-TRUST (347-868-7878) OR shoot us an email at TrustMePod@gmail.com INSTAGRAM @TrustMePodcast @oohlalola @meaganelizabeth11 TWITTER @TrustMeCultPod @ohlalola @baberahamhicks TIKTOK @TrustMeCultPodcast

Today is part two with R. Derek Black, former white supremacist turned anti-racism advocate, and author of The Klansman's Son: My Journey from White Nationalism to Antiracism. Today we discuss how and when Derek’s identity became exposed to their friend group, including drastically different reactions from fellow students, how they were invited to Shabbat dinner by some Jewish friends, and how over time the cognitive dissonance of believing in ideology that was dangerous to people they care about began to wear on them, eventually leading them to denounce white nationalism. BUY OUR MERCH!! bit.ly/trustmemerch  Got your own story about cults, extreme belief, or abuse of power? Leave a voicemail or text us at 347-86-TRUST (347-868-7878) OR shoot us an email at TrustMePod@gmail.com INSTAGRAM @TrustMePodcast @oohlalola @meaganelizabeth11 TWITTER @TrustMeCultPod @ohlalola @baberahamhicks TIKTOK @TrustMeCultPodcast

Today our guest is R. Derek Black, former poster child for white supremacy (now turned antiracist advocate) and author of the new memoir The Klansman’s Son. Derek, who came out as trans in this book, walks us through the white supremacist movement, where it stands now, what it was like growing up in a white nationalist family, being close to prominent neo-Nazi David Duke, how they were taught that the whole world misunderstood their "scientifically correct" ideology, and speaking to the press and becoming a public-facing figure of racism as a child. They’ll tell us about hosting a white nationalist radio show, going off to college, and how they began hanging out with a Jewish girl there who had no idea about this double life they’d been leading. Check out our great sponsors!! Babbel: Want to learn a new language? Get up to 60% off your Babbel subscription at Babbel.com/trustme Shopify: Run a business? Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopify.com/trustme Get new episodes of Murder: True Crime Stories every Tuesday on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts! BUY OUR MERCH!! bit.ly/trustmemerch Got your own story about cults, extreme belief, or abuse of power? Leave a voicemail or text us at 347-86-TRUST (347-868-7878) OR shoot us an email at TrustMePod@gmail.com INSTAGRAM @TrustMePodcast @oohlalola @meaganelizabeth11 TWITTER @TrustMeCultPod @ohlalola @baberahamhicks TIKTOK @TrustMeCultPodcast

In part two with Ian Rafalko, we go deeper into how he left Scientology, what that meant for his family life, and how his dad's lucrative online presence and supplement company tows the line of multi-level marketing. Ian will talk about the viral TikTok video he posted in which he said he was going to end his own life, why he decided not to, how his family reacted, and the paranoia he felt after going public. Get new episodes of Murder: True Crime Stories every Tuesday on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts! BUY OUR MERCH!! bit.ly/trustmemerch  Got your own story about cults, extreme belief, or abuse of power? Leave a voicemail or text us at 347-86-TRUST (347-868-7878) OR shoot us an email at TrustMePod@gmail.com INSTAGRAM @TrustMePodcast @oohlalola @meaganelizabeth11 TWITTER @TrustMeCultPod @ohlalola @baberahamhicks TIKTOK @TrustMeCultPodcast