Claim OwnershipThe Ezra Klein Show
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Ezra Klein invites you into a conversation on something that matters. How do we address climate change if the political system fails to act? Has the logic of markets infiltrated too many aspects of our lives? What is the future of the Republican Party? What do psychedelics teach us about consciousness? What does sci-fi understand about our present that we miss? Can our food system be just to humans and animals alike?
Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher.
Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher.
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2Two sitting heads of state, eight weeks apart.
On Saturday, February 28, the United States and Israel launched a massive military assault on Iran that resulted in the death of Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, along with much of his senior command. This came less than two months after the United States military captured Nicolás Maduro, the president of Venezuela, in an overnight raid.
The president seems to believe that he can decapitate these regimes and control their successors without events spinning out of his control. Is he right?
Ben Rhodes is a New York Times Opinion contributing writer and a co-host of “Pod Save the World.” He served as a senior adviser to President Barack Obama and worked on the Iran nuclear deal.
In this conversation, we discuss the ongoing conflict in Iran, how Democrats should respond, and whether Trump’s “head on a pike” approach to foreign policy underestimates the chaos of war.
Mentioned:
“Push from Saudis, Israel helped move Trump to attack Iran” by Michael Birnbaum, John Hudson, Karen DeYoung, Natalie Allison and Souad Mekhennet
“Trump’s Best Foreign Policy? Not Starting Any Wars” by J.D. Vance
Book Recommendations:
From the Ruins of Empire by Pankaj Mishra
The World of Yesterday by Stefan Zweig
Travelers in the Third Reich by Julia Boyd
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Jack McCordick. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris with Mary Marge Locker, and Kate Sinclair. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota and Isaac Jones. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Marie Cascione, Annie Galvin, Rollin Hu, Kristin Lin, Emma Kehlbeck, Marina King and Jan Kobal. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
President Trump’s approval ratings on the economy, immigration and trade are deep in the red. But in Tuesday night’s State of the Union address, he decided to tell the American people: You don’t know what you’re talking about.
“Today our border is secure, our spirit is restored, inflation is plummeting, incomes are rising fast. The roaring economy is roaring like never before,” he said.
I’m not going to fact-check the president in this episode. But I do want to ask: Even if he can’t be honest with the American people, is he at least being honest with himself?
My editor Aaron Retica joins me to discuss.
Mentioned:
“I Am Part of the Resistance Inside the Trump Administration” by Miles Taylor
“Has Trump Achieved a Lot Less Than It Seems?” with Yuval Levin on “The Ezra Klein Show”
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Claire Gordon and Marie Cascione. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Kate Sinclair and Mary Marge Locker. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Isaac Jones & Aman Sahota. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin, Rollin Hu, Kristin Lin, Emma Kehlbeck, Jack McCordick, Marina King and Jan Kobal. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
A.I. agents are here. Have they changed your life yet? The release of agents like Claude Code marked a new pivot point in the history of A.I. We are leaving the chatbot era and entering the agentic era — where A.I. is capable of completing all kinds of tasks on its own, and even collaborating and communicating with other A.I.
It isn’t clear yet whether these models actually make their users meaningfully more productive. But the technology is continuing to improve; there are few signs that it is close to plateauing. So what might this new era mean for our economy, our labor market and our kids?
Clark is a co-founder of Anthropic, the company behind Claude and Claude Code. His newsletter, Import AI, has been one of my go-to reads to track the capabilities of different models over the years. In this conversation, I ask him to share how he sees this moment — how the technology is changing, whether it is leading to meaningful changes in how we work and think, and how policy needs to or can change in response to any job displacement on the horizon.
Mentioned:
“Import AI” by Jack Clark
“2026: This is AGI” by Pat Grady and Sonya Huang
“Why and How Governments Should Monitor AI Development” by Jess Whittlestone and Jack Clark
“Anthropic’s Chief on A.I.: ‘We Don’t Know if the Models Are Conscious’", Interesting Times with Ross Douthat
Book Recommendations:
A Wizard of Earthsea by Ursula K. Le Guin
The True Believer by Eric Hoffer
There Is No Antimemetics Division by qntm
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris with Mary Marge Locker and Kate Sinclair. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Isaac Jones and Aman Sahota. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Marie Cascione, Annie Galvin, Kristin Lin, Emma Kehlbeck, Jack McCordick, Marina King and Jan Kobal. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
In a couple weeks, the archives of our show will only be available to subscribers. Here’s why that’s happening and what to expect. To learn more, go to nytimes.com/podcasts.
Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Every Tuesday and Friday, Ezra Klein invites you into a conversation about something that matters. How do we address climate change if the political system fails to act? Has the logic of markets infiltrated too many aspects of our lives? What is the future of the Republican Party? What do psychedelics teach us about consciousness? What does sci-fi understand about our present that we miss? Can our food system be just to humans and animals alike?Subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of "The Ezra Klein Show" at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein.Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.“The Ezra Klein Show” is produced by Rogé Karma and Jeff Geld; fact-checking by Michelle Harris; original music by Isaac Jones; mixing by Jeff Geld.
Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
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Perhaps I missed some of her intrepid and attentive reporting with unbiased insight commentary as the 0biden admin criminally threw open the borders, flooding 20 millions of God only knows who of criminal invaders, gang members, and terrorists to overrun our Republic?
Name the shooting officers. Name them now ...Better, name their training officers.
At least masked Federal agents are not swarming through neighborhoods, forcing entry, using tear gas in a car with an infant in it. The way you two gloss over the blood horrors to massage each others love of metrics is something else. At least we are not rattling sabers and threatening to invade a NATO ally, kidnapping leaders, appropriating oil reserves, freeing criminals for bribes. Ezra after the letter just released I think we can be sir-din a madman leads us. Start dealing with that.
Hi Ezra, When people in Iran protest, the internet is cut so repression can happen without witnesses. No news. No videos. Just silence. Iranians aren’t fighting for luxury — they fight for water, electricity, and bread. The youth are highly educated, kind, and deeply connected to the world. We are not against the world — we want to be part of it. Please help be our voice. Being seen saves lives.
We are calling for an emergency podcast about the current situation in Iran. Our people are being killed and brutally suppressed by the regime while internet and phone services have been cut off
The "ethics of care" vs "ethics of justice" discussion was really insightful, some great concepts. 💡
Democrats always seem so sure that if they say something, like for instance "Trump is hurting government workers and people on welfare by shutting down the government ", and that makes it true. but I don't see it. It was the Republicans who voted over and over again to fund the government and keep it open, and it was the Democrats who refused to allow it. it was the democrats who were quite willing to throw the American people under the bus and hold them hostage just to force their agenda.
This sounds like a hopeful dream to get back to that place where nothing fundamentally changes. democrats need to push progressive policies & implement them effectively WITHIN deep blue places to generate tangible examples of the benefits of those policies. From those deep blue places, it will spread outwards to purple places & eventually to red places, because when people hear feel see & touch the benefits of progressivism (housing, food costs, upward mobility, local improvements) we win.
The Democratic Party lost me when it went for the Malthusian soylent Green New Deal, and proceeded to descend into an ideology consistent with anti-humanism on several fronts (radical pro-abortion, gender bending, war on fossil fuel, etc). People will instinctively vote against policies that erode their living standards, even if they don't understand the ideology behind them. If Democrats want voters, they need to quit making our actuarial statistics worse.
Suzanne Mettler is a profoundly arrogant and stupid person. She brushes-off massive blind spots in her analysis, rendering her book and this episode an unfortunate waste of time. – A Rural Dweller
I am mystified why no one has taken note how plainly and quickly the war ended once Hamas returned the hostages. Hamas could've saved us all the anguish of the hell that the hostages endured in brutal captivity and all loss of life and property that the Gazans have endured by just releasing the hostages earlier. This episode also ignores the stark differences between the hostages, who were brutally kidnapped from their homes, and the Palestinian prisoners, murders of Israelis and Arabs.
Ezra...thank you SO much for instigating this conversation. it lifted, inspired, refreshed and comforted me.
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Coates & Klein want to call Charlie Kirk hateful simply because he had some success at making contray arguments to their world view. Most objective Americans do not see Kirks speeches as being an act of hate. But, people that shoot at people just for saying something they don't like, That's Hateful, likewise, people who express pleasure that someone was shot at who said something they don't agree with, that's hateful too.
Hmmm. Making intellectual sparring great again. Mr. Klein, Mr. Kirk produced hateful, sideshows for fun and grew them into huge, profitable, circuses of hate. If his technique dazzled you so much you had to write about it - well, you be you. It is the Ezra Klein show after all. But admiring and praising that technique, he developed, and honed to make spreading hate great again, while he was being lionized as a martyr landed, for many, as misguided, thoughtless, and strange, as you already know.
"Doing politics the right way'?!?!?!?! He antagonized marginalized people with "debate" intended to make them look foolish. That is how he went about gathering support... by united people, in the name of "christ" against common enemies. Do not dare say for a second he was doing politics the right way. It makes you sound like an imbecile.
I started writing this note to say I wuz takin a belt of vodkka ever tym th gest sez “oftentimes”
I appreciated this discussion.
"The world is divided into two groups...." That's all we need to know from the vaccuous Shapiro. How anybody could be Influenced by such a moron is beyond. His cynical outlook exemplifies why we are in silos. Not somone I take seriously, in the slightest.