You’re listening to Burnt Toast!

We are Virginia Sole-Smith and Corinne Fay, and it’s time for… part 2 of our 200th episode!

We are continuing to revisit favorite moments from the podcast archives. Coming up:

🔥We have feelings about aging!

🔥What’s our current take on heterosexual marriage?

🔥How do you set boundaries when you’re in eating disorder recovery but your partner is…on a diet?

And so much more!

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Episode 201 Transcript

Corinne

Okay, so here’s the first question that I picked, from a mailbag episode we ran in January 2023:

Is It Ever Okay to Eat at Chick-fil-A?

What are your personal philosophies on aging, and are you conflicted about it in any sense?

Virginia

I feel firmly that I am someone who was born to be an older person. I think my whole life, I have been working towards being someone in their 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, who mostly stays in and does puzzles and has plans.

And I think the story I kicked this off with about my one night of tequila sidewalk lying down illustrates how bad I was at being a fun young person, and I’m so glad. I’m so glad I don’t have to be fun and young anymore.

Corinne

Wow, there’s nothing you’re conflicted about? Like, how do you feel about gray hair?

Virginia

I actually feel fine about gray hair.

Corinne

Do you have any?

Virginia

Okay, here is the thing about me and gray hair, I don’t have a lot. I do have several. I am not actively trying to dye them, but I do get highlights, and my very talented hair stylist often places the highlights in ways that distract the gray hairs. Doesn’t cover them completely, but yes. And because I made a self care decision to outsource my hair to her, like about a decade ago, and I just do whatever she wants to do with my hair, because I’m always happy with it. And that way I don’t get, like, worked up about what should I do with my hair? I haven’t yet said to her, like, we don’t have to actively cover the grays, but, like, I haven’t started not dying it, is what I’m saying, because I’m happy with how it looks. But it’s not because I’m happy it’s covered my grays. It’s just that I don’t want to think about my hair that much, yeah. But as I get more grays, I will not be trying to hide them. Am I conflicted about aging? When does it come up for me?

Corinne

Sagging face? Menopause?

Virginia

Sagging face, I will admit to feelings about face sagging sometimes. I do have a lot more chin hair in my 40s. So much more chin hair. And managing that is a hobby I didn’t really want. So that one sure. Menopause, I don’t even know. I mean, my relationship with my menstrual health is like I’m suppressing it all with an IUD for as long as possible. So I don’t know. Menopause could be a gift. It could be a nightmare. I have no idea, but what’s going on currently isn’t great.it’s not like I’m gonna be losing out on some beautiful experience of menstruation. So yeah, mostly I just love having to give fewer fucks about stuff.

But yeah, what about you? You sound a little more conflicted. And we should say I’m older. I’m several years older.

Corinne

Not by much.

Virginia

I’m going to be 42 in a few months.

Corinne

I’m 37 when you listen to this podcast. If I did the math right.

I always thought that I wouldn’t care, and then when I started getting gray hairs, I was like, Oh, I do care. And I have the color of hair that you can’t really see them unless you’re like, up close. But yeah, I just was like, Oh, I feel sad that I’m gonna have different hair in like, a few years. I just feel like tI, like, identify with how my hair looks. But yeah, I don’t know that I will start, like, dyeing it because it seems like a lot of work and money. I think I feel like low key sad about it, but also, like I do feel also good about still being alive and giving fewer fucks.

Virginia

I mean, I think there’s a lot of ways in which I haven’t had to contend with a lot of ageism yet. Because I work from home, I’m not in an office where I think it would be dealing with ageism much more concretely on a daily basis. I think that that would be harder and may become harder. I’m at this point like mostly when I sort of suddenly realized that my age or my weight, either one, has rendered me invisible, like to a man or something. I’m usually like, amused, slash, fine with it, like, annoyed sometimes, but also like, Oh, God, are you really gonna be this cliche?

But I mean, again, there’s like, privilege there. My job is not hinging on how people perceive my age yet. Obviously, the idea of, like, adding more oppression is not, like, exciting, and, you know, the idea of dying one day isn’t like, a cheery thought. But, God. I don’t miss my 20s at all.

Corinne

Don’t miss lying on the sidewalk?

Virginia

It was one night. I can’t underscore that enough.

Corinne

You’re never going to live that down

Corinne

So I wanted to revisit this one, because when we recorded this, we were merely 37 and 42. And now I’m 39 and you’re 44! And we were talking about aging. We have aged. Just curious if we feel the same way or or what?

Virginia

Well, first of all, I just got really excited that you’re turning 40 next year, and I want to know what we’re doing for that.

Corinne

Oh God, I’m already having so much anticipatory anxiety about what I should do.

Virginia

I’m so excited. It’s a great birthday. I had my 40th birthday during COVID. Don’t necessarily recommend that, but it’s a good birthday.

I think my feelings are still very similar. I am still someone who was always born to be middle aged or elderly. I still enjoy an early bedtime. I like puzzles. I like gardening. I am extremely comfortable being in my 40s. I feel just delighted by it all the time. I feel so glad that I feel no pressure to be young and cool. That sounds exhausting.

Corinne

Well, I wanted to bring this up because I feel like I’ve heard you mention in some recent episodes, like the one with Sarai Walker—you were like, “I feel rage sometimes about getting older and not getting noticed or being ignored.”

"I've Thought About Unleashing Jennifer on MAGA."

Virginia

Oh, so now you’re calling me out because I was like, I love being older?

Corinne

I didn’t mean it to be a call out! I just thought, oh, maybe this is something where your opinion has changed. Because I originally had much more mixed feelings about aging as a mere 37 year old.

Virginia

Yes, what was your deal? You were an infant!

Though I actually think that’s normal. I think a lot of times, aging is something where we fear it coming. We get really worked up in advance, and then you do it. And you’re like, “Oh, right, I’m still the same person.”

Corinne

That’s deep. That’s what anxiety is!

Virginia

It’s actually not that deep. That’s just what that is.

So, my feelings about the stage of my life I’m in are the same, which are positive. This season of life is a great season compared to previous seasons.

My feelings about how my aging is perceived by the world, yes, I think are a little more complicated now. Like, when I was like, “I feel great about gray hair. I mean, yeah, I don’t have any, but I would be fine with having it.” I think that’s still true, but I continue to not say, “Hey, let’s stop covering up my grays!” I have yet to be like, you know what? I want to see what my hair is doing!

One change we talked about though: I mentioned my chin hair, and the hobby of managing my chin hair, and I did finally, a few months ago, do laser hair removal.

Corinne

Wait! Why have you not written an essay about this?

Virginia

I don’t know! Okay, this is kind of breaking news? I’ve just finished my eighth session or something.

Corinne

Wow! Is it so painful?

Virginia

Okay, I really probably should write an essay.

Corinne

Yeah, maybe save it for the essay? I just have so many questions.

Virginia

The lip is crazy painful. With the lip, you tear up and want to die for a second, painful. The chin, not so bad. And I have to do my jowls, my whole beard area.

Anyway, so, I guess that is me participating in beauty labor to resist aging. Because my facial hair increased with age, and I didn’t like it and I took it down. I would also say for me, it feel