527. Gay Marriage, Surrogacy, Divorce & Hookup Culture | Katy Faust
Digest
This podcast features Katie Faust, who advocates for children's rights through her organization, "Them Before Us." Faust argues that societal norms and policies should prioritize children's well-being above adult desires, particularly in matters of marriage and family. She challenges the prevailing narratives surrounding same-sex parenting and surrogacy, arguing that these practices often disregard the inherent rights of children to their biological mother and father. Faust contends that surrogacy commodifies children and deprives them of crucial parental bonds, leading to potential emotional and psychological harm. She emphasizes the importance of two married biological parents for optimal child development, citing the irreplaceable roles of genetic, birth, and social mothers. The podcast also explores the lack of unbiased research on the impact of maternal loss and the ethical challenges of conducting such studies. Faust discusses the practical strategies her organization employs to advocate for children's rights globally, including public awareness campaigns and policy recommendations. Furthermore, the podcast touches upon the importance of early marriage and family formation for women, the negative consequences of hook-up culture, and the significance of a woman's ability to say "no" in shaping relationships. The discussion highlights the detrimental effects of the sexual revolution on women and children, particularly the issue of "father hunger" and its connection to high rates of teen pregnancy. Ultimately, the podcast underscores the long-term negative consequences of casual sex and the importance of long-term committed relationships for the well-being of children.
Outlines

Introduction: Prioritizing Children's Rights
The podcast introduces Katie Faust and her organization's mission: prioritizing children's rights above adult desires in all matters of marriage and family, challenging societal norms and advocating for policies that benefit children's well-being.

Katie Faust's Advocacy and Motivations
Katie Faust explains her work advocating for children's rights, emphasizing the need for adult sacrifice for children's well-being, the personal cost of this advocacy, and aligning self-interest with children's long-term interests. She addresses skepticism about her motives, clarifying they stem from a deep concern for children's well-being, not self-serving or religious reasons.

The Gay Marriage Debate and its Impact on Children
Faust details her journey into child rights advocacy, triggered by the gay marriage debate and the perceived disregard for potential harm to children. She highlights the emotional and psychological impact of parental loss on children.

Benefits of Two Married Biological Parents & Surrogacy's Complexities
The discussion explores the benefits of children being raised by two married biological parents, contrasting this with alternative family structures and highlighting the complexities and challenges of surrogacy and its potential harm to the child.

Surrogacy: Existence vs. Parental Deprivation
The ethical dilemma of surrogacy is tackled, weighing the child's right to exist against the potential deprivation of maternal care, exploring the irreplaceable roles of genetic, birth, and social mothers.

Natural Rights and Child Welfare
Faust outlines her understanding of natural rights, applying this framework to the debate surrounding surrogacy and children's rights, emphasizing their pre-political nature and equal distribution.

Studies on Maternal Loss and Child Development & Practical Strategies
The discussion explores the lack of unbiased studies on the impact of maternal loss on children and the ethical challenges of conducting such research, touching upon the profound biological connection between mother and child. Faust then discusses practical strategies of "Them Before Us" to change hearts and laws globally to protect children's rights.

Importance of Early Marriage & Family Formation & Hook-up Culture's Dangers
The podcast emphasizes the importance of strategic dating and early marriage for women, highlighting parental guidance and arguing against delaying marriage and family formation. It delves into the "civilizing effect" of women and the negative consequences of hook-up culture, linking it to negative male personality traits.

The Power of "No," Father Hunger, and the Sexual Revolution's Impact
This segment discusses the importance of a woman's ability to say "no" as a status marker, the impact of the sexual revolution on young girls, highlighting "father hunger" and its connection to high rates of teen pregnancy, arguing the sexual revolution has been detrimental to women and children.

Conclusion: Long-Term Consequences and the Cost to Children
The podcast concludes by reiterating the long-term negative consequences of casual sex and the importance of long-term committed relationships for the well-being of children, emphasizing that children always pay the price when sex occurs outside of marriage.
Keywords
Child's Right to Parents
The inherent right of a child to a biological mother and father, crucial for identity formation, emotional well-being, and healthy development.
Surrogacy
The practice of carrying a pregnancy to term for another person; ethical concerns arise regarding the child's right to their biological parents and potential commodification.
Maternal Deprivation
The negative impact on a child's development from the absence or disruption of the bond with their mother.
Same-Sex Parenting
Families with same-sex parents; the discussion explores the potential impact on children's well-being.
Natural Rights
Rights inherent to individuals by nature, existing independently of government; includes the right to life and, according to Faust, the right to one's biological parents.
Child Commodification
The treatment of children as commodities, often seen in reproductive technologies; raises ethical concerns about prioritizing adult desires over children's well-being.
Early Family Formation
Establishing a family and having children at a younger age; related to marriage, child-rearing, and family values.
Hook-up Culture
A casual approach to dating and sexual relationships, characterized by short-term encounters and a lack of commitment; often associated with negative consequences.
Father Hunger
Emotional longing for a father figure's love and attention, particularly in girls lacking a stable paternal presence.
Q&A
What are the key arguments against surrogacy from a child's rights perspective?
Surrogacy deprives children of their inherent right to their biological mother and father, potentially causing lasting emotional and psychological harm. It commodifies children, prioritizing adult desires over their well-being.
What evidence exists to support the claim that children raised by two married biological parents fare better?
While unbiased studies are limited, existing research consistently shows that children with two biological parents in a stable marriage generally have better outcomes.
How does Katie Faust's advocacy differ from other child-focused movements?
Faust's advocacy directly challenges prevailing narratives, prioritizing children's inherent rights over adult desires. She argues against the commodification of children and advocates for traditional family structures.
What are the practical steps Katie Faust and her organization are taking to advance children's rights?
"Them Before Us" engages in public awareness campaigns, interviews, and policy recommendations to advocate for legislation protecting children's rights.
What is the central question underlying the various debates discussed in the podcast?
The fundamental question is: What does it mean to be human? A proper understanding of human nature is crucial for making sound decisions regarding family and social policy.
What are the main arguments against delaying marriage and family formation?
Delaying marriage and family formation increases the risk of involuntary singleness and reduces the window of opportunity for finding a like-minded partner.
How does the personality of men who prefer hook-up culture contribute to the negative consequences of this behavior?
Men who prefer hook-up culture often exhibit Machiavellian, psychopathic, narcissistic, and sadistic traits, leading to manipulative and exploitative behavior towards women.
What is the significance of a woman's ability to say "no" in shaping relationships?
A woman's ability to say "no" serves as a status marker, allowing women to set limits, maintain their self-respect, and attract men who value commitment and respect.
How does fatherlessness contribute to negative outcomes for young girls?
Fatherlessness can lead to "father hunger," resulting in increased vulnerability to unhealthy relationships and higher rates of teen pregnancy.
What is the central argument regarding the impact of the sexual revolution on women and children?
The sexual revolution has had detrimental effects on women and children, leading to increased rates of teen pregnancy, unhealthy relationships, and a breakdown of traditional family structures.
Show Notes
Jordan Peterson sits down with author, speaker, and founder and president of the children’s rights organization Them Before Us, Katy Faust. They discuss the ethics of surrogate pregnancies, the importance of both the mother and father in the home, the purpose of marriage being for the child — not the adults, and the abysmal outcomes of no-fault divorce in our culture.
Katy Faust is the founder and president of Them Before Us, a global movement defending children’s right to their mother and father. She publishes, speaks, and testifies widely on why marriage and family are matters of justice for children. Her articles have appeared in Newsweek, USA Today, The Federalist, Public Discourse, WORLD Magazine, The Daily Signal, the Washington Examiner, the American Mind, and the American Conservative. She is on the advisory board for the Alliance for Responsible Citizenship. Katy helped design the teen edition of CanaVox, which studies sex, marriage, and relationships from a natural law perspective. Katy and co-author Stacy Manning detailed their philosophy of worldview transmission in their second book, “Raising Conservative Kids in a Woke City.” She and her pastor husband are raising their four children in Seattle.
This episode was filmed on February 13th, 2025.
| Links |
For Katy Faust:
On X https://x.com/advo_katy?lang=en
On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/katyfaustofficial/?hl=en
Them Before Us website https://thembeforeus.com/
Them Before Us on X https://x.com/ThemBeforeUs?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
Read Katy’s books on parenting:
Them Before Us: Why We Need a Global Children's Rights Movement (2021) https://a.co/d/4l8WVET
Raising Conservative Kids in a Woke City: Teaching Historical, Economic, and Biological Truth in a World of Lies (2023) https://a.co/d/8sN4Blb
Pro-Child Politics: Why Every Cultural, Economic, and National Issue Is a Matter of Justice for Children (2024) https://a.co/d/7p0k6nL
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