DiscoverGetting Better with Jonathan Van NessAttacks on the Separation of Church and State, The Lawless Supreme Court, and the Update on Public Schools
Attacks on the Separation of Church and State, The Lawless Supreme Court, and the Update on Public Schools

Attacks on the Separation of Church and State, The Lawless Supreme Court, and the Update on Public Schools

Update: 2025-05-12
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This podcast episode features discussions on various timely topics. It begins by revisiting a previous episode with Dan Harris, focusing on his insights into overcoming failure and navigating downward spirals, with the hosts sharing personal experiences. The episode then delves into an interview with Leah Litman, author of "Lawless," exploring the "conservative grievance mindset" and its influence on recent Supreme Court decisions, particularly concerning LGBTQ+ rights and the separation of church and state. Alessandro Toranzoni from Americans United for Separation of Church and State further examines the increasing challenges to church-state separation in public schools, highlighting concerning national trends and legislative efforts. Finally, the hosts answer a listener question about overcoming insecurity and isolation, offering advice on seeking help and practicing self-compassion, and conclude with their "Hoppage of the Week" segment.

Outlines

00:00:00
Overcoming Failure and the Conservative Grievance Mindset

The episode starts with a discussion of Dan Harris's advice on overcoming failure and navigating downward spirals, followed by an interview with Leah Litman about the "conservative grievance mindset" influencing Supreme Court decisions regarding LGBTQ+ rights and church-state separation.

00:18:09
The Battle for Church-State Separation in Schools

Alessandro Toranzoni discusses the increasing challenges to the separation of church and state in public schools, highlighting legislative efforts and national trends.

00:31:24
Listener Questions and Hoppage of the Week

The hosts answer a listener question about overcoming insecurity and isolation, offering advice and concluding with their weekly segment featuring lighthearted discussions.

Keywords

Conservative Grievance Mindset


The belief that conservatives are unfairly victimized, influencing Supreme Court decisions and political discourse.

Separation of Church and State


The constitutional principle preventing government endorsement of religion, challenged by legal cases seeking increased religious influence in public schools.

Downward Spiral/Upward Spiral


Psychological concepts describing negative and positive feedback loops impacting mental well-being.

Public School Curriculum


The content taught in public schools, a battleground for debates about religious inclusion, LGBTQ+ representation, and parental rights.

LGBTQ+ Rights


Legal and social rights for lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, and queer individuals, currently challenged in various legal cases.

Supreme Court Decisions


Rulings made by the U.S. Supreme Court, particularly those influenced by the conservative grievance mindset.

Mental Health


Strategies for improving mental well-being, including overcoming insecurity and isolation.

Leah Litman


Author of "Lawless," interviewed about the conservative grievance mindset and its impact on the Supreme Court.

Alessandro Toranzoni


Expert on church-state separation, discussing challenges in public schools.

Dan Harris


Previously interviewed guest offering advice on overcoming failure.

Q&A

  • What is the "conservative grievance mindset," and how is it impacting Supreme Court decisions?

    It's the belief that conservatives are a persecuted minority, unjustly targeted. This fuels challenges to LGBTQ+ inclusion and the separation of church and state, leading to court decisions that favor religious conservatives.

  • How is the separation of church and state being challenged in public schools?

    Through legislation promoting prayer in schools, inclusion of religious materials in the curriculum, and efforts to replace guidance counselors with chaplains. National voucher programs also divert public funds to religious schools.

  • What advice is offered to listeners struggling with isolation and insecurity?

    Seek help from friends, family, or professionals. Practice self-compassion using resources like Kristen Neff's work. Acknowledge and address underlying pain contributing to self-sabotaging behaviors.

Show Notes

This week on The Monday Edit - we’re making public push back fun with Strict Scrutiny’s co-host Leah Litman talking all about her new book Lawless: How the Supreme Court Came to Run on Conservative Grievance, Fringe Theories, and Bad Vibes. We’re also talking about why public schools are becoming the battle ground for the separation of church and state with Alessandro Terenzoni, VP of Public Policy from Americans United for Separation of Church and State - we’re going IN on the supreme court this week, if you can’t already tell. Plus! We’re serving you a healthy dose of queer joy (like we always do over here on the Monday Edit, duh!).




Leah Litman is a professor of law at the University of Michigan and a former Supreme Court clerk. In addition to cohosting Strict Scrutiny, she writes frequently about the Court for media outlets including The Washington Post, Slate, and The Atlantic, among others, and has appeared as a commentator on NPR and MSNBC, in addition to other venues. She has received the Ruth Bader Ginsburg award for her “scholarly excellence” from the American Constitution Society and published in top law reviews. Follow her on X @LeahLitman and Instagram @ProfLeahLitman.




Alessandro Terenzoni is Vice President of Public Policy at Americans United. He leads Americans United’s policy team in its critical work to promote positive policy that defends and supports church-state separation at the federal and state levels. Before joining Americans United, he was Deputy Director of the Office for Civil Rights within the U.S. Department of Justice’s Office of Justice Programs. He led the office’s civil-rights enforcement and technical-assistance work, ensuring that DOJ grant recipients did not unlawfully discriminate based on race, sex, religion, disability, and other protected bases.




Follow us on Instagram @gettingbetterwithjvn Jonathan on Instagram @jvn and senior producer Chris @amomentlikechris




New video episodes Getting Better on YouTube every Wednesday.




Senior Producer, Chris McClure


Producer, Editor & Engineer is Nathanael McClure


Production support from Julie Carrillo, Anne Currie, and Chad Hall


Our theme music is also composed by Nathanael McClure.




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Attacks on the Separation of Church and State, The Lawless Supreme Court, and the Update on Public Schools

Attacks on the Separation of Church and State, The Lawless Supreme Court, and the Update on Public Schools

Sony Music Entertainment / Jonathan Van Ness