Former U.S. Secretary of Education Margaret Spellings joins Kyle and Tom for a deep dive into the state of American education—past, present, and future. From her early days in Texas politics to shaping national education policy under President George W. Bush, Spellings reflects on landmark legislation like No Child Left Behind, the power of bipartisanship, and the current crisis in K–12 learning. The conversation ranges from career highlights and political stories to bold ideas for accountability, school choice, and the future of higher education.

In This Episode

[03:00 ] Why education is the beating heart of state government

[06:00 ] George W. Bush, Texas politics, and an unlikely gubernatorial win

[12:30 ] Crafting No Child Left Behind—and surviving 9/11 while doing it

[20:15 ] What worked, what didn’t, and why testing got personal

[25:00 ] The accountability unwind and COVID's lingering impact

[30:00 ] The truth about teachers' unions and school vouchers

[36:00 ] Can school choice work if capacity doesn’t exist?

[39:00 ] The role of higher education & why some programs are cash cows

[45:00 ] Is college still worth it? And the growing backlash over student debt

[50:00 ] The cultural tug-of-war over curriculum and who controls it

[54:00 ] A generational education crisis—and what it means for the U.S.

[58:00 ] Leadership, legacy, and what’s next for Margaret Spellings

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Editing and Support by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Good Podcast Co.⁠