Digest

This episode delves into the aftermath of a domestic violence incident involving Taylor and Dakota from \"Secret Lives of Mormon Wives,\" leading to the cancellation of Taylor's \"Bachelorette\" season. Guest host Jesse Draper shares her personal story of enduring emotional abuse, control, and blackmail from her ex-husband, Jordan. She recounts the progression of their relationship, his manipulative tactics, her affair as a cry for help, and her eventual decision to leave him. The conversation also touches on the complexities of co-parenting, financial settlements, and the importance of reclaiming one's narrative after a public divorce. Draper emphasizes the psychological impact of abuse, the struggle with self-worth, and the journey toward healing and self-compassion. The episode concludes with reflections on cast dynamics, the future of reality TV shows, and advice for others experiencing similar situations.

Outlines

00:00:00

Introduction and Context

The episode begins with a disclaimer about the recording date and ongoing news, assuring listeners that any weekend news is not being deliberately avoided. Guest host Jesse Draper is introduced, and the hosts acknowledge recent \"traumatic headlines\" concerning Taylor and Frankie Paul from \"Secret Lives of Mormon Wives,\" clarifying Draper was booked before this news broke.

00:00:40

Taylor and Dakota Incident and Jesse's Perspective

The conversation shifts to a domestic violence report involving Taylor and Dakota, including a video of an altercation and the cancellation of Taylor's \"Bachelorette\" season. Jesse Draper confirms she knew about the video's existence from 2023 but hadn't seen it, expressing empathy for Taylor and hoping for healing. She discusses the known toxic cycle in their relationship and how the cast collectively decided to pause filming for mental health reasons. Production also initiated a pause due to concern for the cast's well-being. Draper expresses surprise at Dakota filing a police report now and believes he may have reached a limit.

00:06:01

Jordan's Control and Allegations

Draper details Jordan's controlling behavior, including his presence during Dakota's interactions with Taylor, and how their friendships evolved. She describes Jordan's alleged shady behavior, spending her money on escorts, and refutes his claim of her infidelity. Draper explains Jordan falsely accused her of an affair in divorce papers and reveals she has proof of his involvement with escorts. She believes Jordan's behavior was a \"final straw\" and reflects on protecting him during a past scandal, admitting it influenced her decision to leave. Draper clarifies she learned about the escort situation before filming season one, but Jordan denied it. She admits she initially believed his denials but later questioned his honesty, suspecting he was projecting his own issues. She confirms that any spending on parties or escorts in the last three years was likely with her money, as she has been the sole provider. Draper likens the situation to \"Swinging but Worse\" and notes that most people have reacted positively to her divorce.

00:12:38

Jordan Files for Divorce and Emotional Abuse

News breaks that Jordan has filed for divorce, and Draper confirms she initiated the separation but was blindsided by his public filing. She describes the shock of learning about the divorce via TMZ, especially as their children found out the same way. Draper reveals Jordan tried to include a clause in the divorce preventing her from discussing him on podcasts, which she refused. She states Jordan has a history of emotional abuse, which is why she is handling their children through a third party and changed her phone number to prevent his contact. Draper recounts Jordan hacking her Instagram, creating a fake number, and sending himself audio messages to accuse her of cheating. She reveals Jordan has tracked her location, listened in on her cameras, and engaged in other surveillance behaviors, describing him as calculated and projecting his own issues. Draper is currently staying in a hotel, having left the house she paid for due to Jordan's controlling behavior.

00:24:49

Custody, Early Relationship, and Jordan's Control

Draper is unsure how her young children are reacting to the divorce, as Jordan may have informed them before she could. She describes a hostile FaceTime call with her son where Jordan was snapping at him. Draper is pursuing a 50/50 custody agreement, emphasizing her role as the primary provider and parent. She describes the beginning of her relationship with Jordan as good, meeting quickly after her first divorce and leaning on each other for support. Draper recognizes a pattern of attracting controlling partners, stemming from self-consciousness and past experiences. The first year of their marriage was generally good, though Draper now sees Jordan's controlling behavior as always present. Jordan's control over every aspect of her life, including her business and parenting, was the primary trigger for arguments. Draper provides examples of Jordan's control, such as dictating her business operations, mom-shaming her, and reacting negatively to minor household issues. Jordan's constant questioning about her whereabouts and activities created a feeling of being under surveillance. Draper believes Jordan desired a submissive partner, and her increasing independence led to conflict. Jordan was constantly critical of Draper, with compliments being rare. Draper felt a constant barrage of criticism, making her feel as though she was always being \"dumped on.\" Jordan expressed a belief in traditional gender roles and suggested Draper do Pilates daily, aiming for her to be more \"feminine.\" Draper highlights the unrealistic expectations Jordan placed on her as the breadwinner, caregiver, and homemaker, while he did not uphold similar standards. Jordan did not work for the last three years and relied on a full-time nanny, contributing little to childcare until evenings. Draper felt she needed Jordan's approval for every decision. Jordan's advice was often coupled with criticism and put-downs. Jordan justified his controlling behavior by claiming superior knowledge and highlighting Draper's past mistakes. Draper acknowledges the strangeness of recounting these incidents and the self-righteousness of men who exert control over women.

00:31:11

Daily Fights, Blackmail, and Realization

Draper reveals they fought every single day for the last five years, leading to her separation from Jordan. Jordan blackmailed Draper with Marciano texts, threatening to post them and ruin her life, which led to her physically trying to get his phone. Jordan recorded Draper during their fight and taunted her, comparing her to Taylor and asking if he should call the cops. Draper realized the unhealthy dynamic of chasing her husband to prevent blackmail and decided to leave him the next day. Despite the fight, Jordan did not leave the house, and Draper felt like a prisoner. Jordan continued to use the Marciano incident as blackmail to further control Draper. Draper reflects on Jordan's gaslighting regarding the escort situation and his betrayal by using her past actions against her. Draper expresses deep regret for her actions and takes full responsibility, but emphasizes the impact of Jordan's blackmail. Draper states that Jordan's blackmail ruined their relationship and was a traumatizing experience. Draper describes feeling like she was constantly walking on eggshells, fearing her life could be ruined by Jordan's power over her. Draper reiterates that the situation was traumatizing and highlights Jordan's enjoyment of controlling her.

00:34:10

Recognizing Emotional Abuse and Past Trauma

Draper can now clearly see the progression from relationship struggles to emotional abuse in her marriage. She initially perceived the arguments as normal relationship struggles, not realizing the extent of the emotional abuse until later. Draper's first marriage was also emotionally abusive, and she married Jordan quickly without fully healing from that experience. She justified Jordan's behavior by viewing him as her \"savior\" who rescued her from her previous marriage. Draper's friends and family were aware of Jordan's mistreatment and disliked him, but she initially dismissed their concerns. Draper's energy healer asked if she was safe, prompting Draper to finally voice her experiences and realize it was emotional abuse. Admitting the abuse aloud brought clarity, allowing Draper to see the situation clearly for the first time. Draper acknowledges that abusive patterns can feel familiar and become normalized, especially after experiencing them previously. Psychological abuse is insidious and can lead individuals to believe they are unworthy or deserve the mistreatment. Draper emphasizes having a loving and supportive family, suggesting her attraction to abusive partners stemmed from childhood wounds related to feeling inadequate. Draper subconsciously sought out partners who mirrored past negative experiences, accepting the love she believed she deserved. Draper recalls her family's distress during Season 4, recognizing her altered state due to the abuse. Draper acknowledges that external validation, like from her energy healer, was crucial in her realization and decision to leave. Draper admits she lost herself in the relationship, a fact recognized by her loved ones.

00:38:53

Intimacy Issues, Jordan Quitting Job, and Gender Roles

Draper's body reacted negatively to intimacy with Jordan after the separation, experiencing panic attacks and aversion to touch. She stresses that the body provides clear signals of distress in abusive situations, urging others to listen to these cues. Jordan quit his job to help with the kids and film more, a decision initially initiated by Draper but misinterpreted by Jordan. Draper initiated Jordan quitting his job due to the newborn and toddler, but expected him to find other work, not become a stay-at-home dad. Draper believes her role as the sole provider impacted their relationship, as Jordan struggled with not being the primary earner, influenced by traditional Mormon gender roles. Draper notes that many men in their social circle struggle with traditional gender roles and being intimidated by successful female partners. Jordan became competitive with Draper's success, particularly regarding \"Dad Talk,\" feeling threatened by her achievements. Jordan expressed discomfort with being a stay-at-home dad, believing he was not meant for that role and that the kids needed their mother. Draper desired a partner who would actively participate in childcare, viewing it as a partnership, not a babysitting role. Draper highlights the unfairness of Jordan enjoying the benefits of her hard work while avoiding his parental responsibilities. Jordan's involvement in \"Dad Talk\" began with making funny videos but escalated into a competitive dynamic. The competitiveness between Draper and Jordan turned their relationship hostile. Draper and the other women found \"Dad Talk\" cringeworthy and agreed it should be less prominent. Despite audience requests, it's challenging to exclude the husbands from the show as they are part of the cast members' lives. Draper believes Jordan benefited significantly from her success, with most of his brand deals being tied to her. Draper feels Jordan used her success for his own gain, particularly on platforms like Cameo, blurring the lines of their joint ventures.

00:44:24

Affair Timeline, Jordan as the Liar, and Seeking an Out

Draper reflects on how learning about Jordan's escort involvement before the Marciano affair changes the perspective on his reaction to her actions. Draper now sees Jordan as the primary liar, given his actions and accusations. Draper explains her affair was a desperate attempt to escape her trapped and unhappy marriage, seeking a reason for Jordan to leave her. Draper admits she was looking for an escape and self-sabotaged by kissing Marciano, hoping it would end the marriage. Despite the affair, Draper chose to stay with Jordan after a 90-day break due to fear of being alone, hurting him, and the unknown, especially with children involved. During therapy, Jordan finally admitted to Draper that he instigated the cycle of emotional abuse and acknowledged his role. Draper initially considered staying because Jordan admitted his wrongdoing and expressed willingness to change. While Jordan made changes, Draper realized she was no longer in love with him and that their needs were incompatible. Draper concluded that while Jordan's changes were positive for him, they didn't work for her, and she had given her all to the relationship.

00:48:10

Impact of Abuse on Self-Image and Cosmetic Procedures

Toxic and abusive situations significantly damage self-image and self-worth. Draper shared her regret over recent cosmetic surgeries, realizing they were a coping mechanism for feeling inadequate due to past relationships. Draper looked back at Season 4 and realized she looked good then, questioning her decision to undergo further procedures. Controlling her appearance became a coping mechanism when other aspects of her life felt chaotic and uncontrollable. Draper regrets all cosmetic procedures, particularly a recent one where she felt pressured into additional treatments she didn't want. Draper is encouraged to be less hard on herself, recognizing that external procedures don't solve internal issues.

00:50:19

Cast Dynamics, Jordan's Behavior, and \"Woman's Game\"

The other women on the show consistently disliked Jordan due to his treatment of Draper and demeaning attitude towards women. Jordan spoke negatively about Draper's friends, creating a difficult position for her. Jordan was a \"big mouth\" who exaggerated and stirred up gossip, contributing to relationship conflicts. Draper asserts that reality TV drama is a \"woman's game,\" and men should not engage in gossip or stirring up trouble. The other women's strong dislike for Jordan was evident and unavoidable. Draper's friends recognized her overnight bag in Season 1, indicating she was frequently staying elsewhere due to marital issues. Draper wishes she had prioritized her own emotional well-being and allowed herself to be vulnerable instead of constantly putting on a brave face. Draper developed a coping mechanism of suppressing emotions to function professionally after intense fights with Jordan. The show has helped Draper become more comfortable expressing emotions, noting progress in her ability to cry.

00:52:54

Anniversary Dinner, Name Change, and Decision for Divorce

Draper's concern for the relationship's future contrasted sharply with Jordan's suggestion of renewing their vows, highlighting their differing perspectives. Draper believes Jordan's vow renewal suggestion was a desperate attempt to salvage the relationship, as he wasn't truly listening to her concerns. Draper changed her last name for business reasons, finding \"Nati Cara\" difficult to pronounce and aligning with her family name, Draper. Draper admits that subconsciously, changing her name might have been a step towards future independence. Jordan's extreme reaction to the name change suggested he knew it was a precursor to their divorce. Jordan twisted the conversation about names into an accusation that Draper was changing her name to reconnect with Marciano. Draper has not spoken to Marciano in nearly a year, confirming that relationship is over. Draper experienced a profound realization that she could change her life and be happy, leading to her decision to divorce Jordan. Jordan repeatedly tried to calm Draper down and convince her to work on the marriage, but the cycle always returned to its previous state. Draper describes the excruciating experience of living in limbo, unsure of her decisions regarding the marriage. A simple thought—\"I can change this. I can be happy\"—triggered a decisive shift, making Draper determined to leave. Draper told Jordan she wanted a divorce on a Friday, after experiencing the decisive feeling the day before. Jordan's reaction was erratic, shifting from calm to anger, and he resorted to gaslighting, claiming Draper wasn't healed enough and was cheating again. Draper firmly told Jordan she had considered the divorce for four years and was now choosing herself. Even after Draper's declaration, Jordan continued talking, gaslighting, and following her downstairs, forcing her to leave. Draper has not slept in the house since leaving, only returning briefly to see the children. Draper returned to the house for one night after feeling lost and wanting to be with her children, ultimately having sex with Jordan despite her initial refusal. Draper agreed to have sex with Jordan on the condition that it wouldn't change anything, a promise he seemingly broke. The speaker reflects on a past decision that led to a definitive end to a chapter in her life, expressing relief and a strong resolve to never repeat certain experiences.

00:58:10

Co-Parenting, Prenup, and Public Disclosure

The speaker discusses her co-parenting arrangement with her ex-partner, focusing on the logistics of switching off childcare duties and her desire to avoid hotels for her children. The conversation shifts to the family home, with one speaker believing it's best to sell it, while the other (her ex-husband) is resistant. The validity of a prenuptial agreement is also discussed. The speaker confirms her prenuptial agreement is valid, meaning she won't lose her businesses. However, she anticipates paying alimony and child support, and potentially a financial payout. The speaker expresses some resentment about potentially having to give a portion of her hard-earned business assets away, but acknowledges it's for her children's stability. The discussion touches on cheating allegations as the reason for the divorce, and the speaker's decision to speak openly about it, especially after her ex-partner allegedly leaked information. The speaker anticipates her ex-husband's negative reaction to her discussing their private life publicly but emphasizes her commitment to being honest with her children about her mistakes, including an affair. The speaker is unsure if her ex-husband is still denying allegations of infidelity and discusses the focus on women's wrongdoings in \"Dad Talk\" while men's actions are overlooked.

01:02:44

Impact of Divorce on Filming and Future

The speaker discusses how her divorce might impact future filming for \"Mom Talk,\" expressing a desire to continue telling stories despite the personal turmoil. After her ex-husband went to TMZ, the speaker is now able to share her side of the story in long-form, acknowledging she'll need to fill in the gaps when filming resumes. The speaker describes the experience of sharing her story as surreal, reflecting on her past desire to be on \"Call Her Daddy\" and how the timing is now right due to her divorce. The speaker discusses the healing process after an emotionally abusive relationship, emphasizing the difficulty of leaving and the importance of prioritizing her children's well-being. The speaker discusses pushing through self-sabotaging thoughts and the fear of her ex-husband's reaction, fueled by his recent filing for divorce. Having not dated since she was 20, the speaker expresses nervousness and excitement about dating again, emphasizing her desire for freedom and meeting new people. The speaker anticipates the public's interest in seeing her single and confident, believing this is an opportunity to showcase her true self and power. The speaker acknowledges the overwhelming public support for her decision to leave her marriage, with many celebrating her newfound freedom. The speaker expresses gratitude for her supportive friends and reflects on the positive public reaction to her situation, noting it's been a celebrated feeling.

01:08:08

Rapid Fire Q&A and Cast Dynamics

The speaker engages in a rapid-fire Q&A session, discussing the possibility of a reunion, her closest friends on the show, and her relationships with other cast members. The speaker clarifies the group chat situation and shares her opinion on Harry Jousy's appearance on \"Mom Talk,\" finding the scene to be \"best TV.\" The speaker discusses the drama surrounding the \"Unwell\" event and Macy's book event, emphasizing her loyalty to her friends and prioritizing their feelings. The speaker provides an update on the relationships between cast members Jen and Whitney, suggesting they may reconcile after reflecting on the season. The speaker believes \"Dad Talk\" is likely finished, as the audience has seemingly made their decision about its continuation. The speaker urges viewers to remember they are real people with edited lives, asking for grace and reminding women in similar situations of their worth. The speaker expresses a desire to learn more about the alleged \"orgies\" and plans to follow up for updates, anticipating her ex-husband will deny involvement. The speaker thanks the host for the opportunity to share her story, emphasizing the importance of understanding the full context beyond reality TV edits and wishing everyone well.

Keywords

Q&A

• What led to the cancellation of Taylor's season of \"The Bachelorette\"?

  Taylor's season of \"The Bachelorette\" was canceled shortly before its premiere due to a recent domestic violence report and a disturbing video of an altercation between her and Dakota that surfaced.

• How did Jesse Draper know about the video of Taylor and Dakota's altercation?

  Jesse Draper knew about the video's existence from 2023 when the altercation occurred, but she had not seen it until it was released publicly.

• What is emotional abuse, and how did it manifest in Jesse Draper's relationship with Jordan?

  Emotional abuse involves controlling, manipulative, and demeaning behavior. In Draper's relationship, it included constant criticism, control over her life and business, gaslighting, and threats, making her feel unsafe and devalued.

• Why did Jesse Draper feel trapped in her marriage to Jordan?

  Draper felt trapped due to financial control, Jordan's manipulation, his constant criticism, and his making her feel like she couldn't leave, especially considering her children.

• What was the significance of the Marciano incident in Jesse Draper's decision to leave Jordan?

  While not excusing her actions, Draper saw kissing Marciano as a potential \"out\" from her unhappy marriage, a cry for help to end the relationship.

• How did Jordan react when Jesse Draper told him she wanted a divorce?

  Jordan's reaction was erratic, involving calmness, anger, gaslighting, and false accusations of cheating, before he eventually seemed to understand her decision.

• What evidence does Jesse Draper have regarding Jordan's alleged involvement with escorts?

  Draper has screenshots from an escort service, including Jordan's phone number and messages, proving his involvement.

• What are the financial implications of the prenuptial agreement for the speaker?

  The prenuptial agreement is valid, so she will not have to give up her businesses. However, she anticipates paying alimony and child support, and potentially a financial payout to her ex-husband.

• How is the speaker managing co-parenting with her ex-partner?

  They have a system where they switch off childcare duties. The speaker picks up the children from school and handles evenings, while the ex-partner handles mornings and takes them to school.

• Why is the speaker choosing to be open about her divorce and past mistakes?

  She wants to be honest with her children, teach them from her mistakes, and reclaim her narrative after her ex-husband allegedly leaked information to TMZ.

Show Notes