This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.com

Laura Field is a writer and political theorist who specializes in far-right populist intellectualism in the US. She’s currently a Scholar in Residence at American University, a Senior Advisor for the Illiberalism Studies Program at GW, and a nonresident fellow with Brookings. Her new book is Furious Minds: The Making of the MAGA New Right. We bonded over some of the right’s wackier innovations, and differed over how far the left has also slid into illiberalism.

An auto-transcript is available above (just click “Transcript” while logged into Substack). For two clips of our convo — on the New Right’s “post-constitutional moment,” and the war on the civil service — head to our YouTube page.

Other topics: growing up in Alberta; losing a parent at a very young age; Plato an early inspiration; growing tired of the Straussians; the decline of religion under liberalism; Locke; Rousseau; Nietzsche; Fukuyama; the resurgence of the illiberal left and illiberal right; the Claremont Institute and Harry Jaffa; Jaffa’s extreme homophobia and hatred of divorce; Allan Bloom; Lincoln fulfilling the Founding; Hobbes; the role of virtue in a republic; Machiavelli; Michael Anton’s “Flight 93 Election”; John Eastman and “Stop the Steal”; Curtis Yarvin and The Cathedral; Adrian Vermeule’s Common Good Constitutionalism; Catholic conversion; Pope Leo; Obergefell, debating Harvey Mansfield over marriage; Woodrow Wilson’s expansion of the state; Thatcher and Reagan slimming it down; the pros and cons of technocratic experts; DOGE vs federal workers; “queer” curricula and the 1619 Project; edge-lords; Bronze Age Pervert and pagan masculinity; Fuentes and Carlson; and debating the dangers of wokeness.

Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy. Coming up: Claire Berlinski on America’s retreat from global hegemony, Jason Willick on trade and conservatism, and Vivek Ramaswamy on the right’s future. Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.