Leading leaders who lead engineers (remastered) (Interview)
Digest
This podcast covers a range of topics related to leadership, management, and technological advancements. Terrence Lee discusses Heroku's new platform, "Fur," built on open standards like OCI and Kubernetes, prioritizing stability and developer productivity. Lara Hogan emphasizes the critical distinction between mentorship (advice) and sponsorship (active advocacy), highlighting sponsorship's strong correlation with career advancement. She further explains the management-leadership spectrum, advocating for adaptable approaches based on context. Hogan also defines and differentiates mentoring, coaching, sponsoring, and feedback delivery. David Shoe, CEO of Retool, describes the ideal Retool user and its impact on business efficiency. The podcast stresses the importance of building a diverse leadership support network ("Voltron") encompassing mentors, coaches, and sponsors. It challenges the notion of leadership as an innate trait, promoting it as a learned skill requiring continuous learning and adaptation. Finally, it compares Seth Godin's "Linchpin" and "Cog" leadership models, advocating for the collaborative "Cog" model focused on servant leadership and team growth.
Outlines

Heroku's "Fur" and Modern Platform Architecture
Terrence Lee details Heroku's next-generation platform, "Fur," built on open standards (OCI, Kubernetes) for enhanced stability and resilience while maintaining developer-friendly workflows.

Mentorship, Sponsorship, and Career Advancement
Lara Hogan differentiates mentorship (advice) and sponsorship (active advocacy), emphasizing sponsorship's crucial role in career progression and providing real-world examples.

The Management-Leadership Spectrum and Contextual Adaptation
Lara Hogan describes management and leadership as a spectrum, highlighting the importance of adapting approaches based on context and individual needs.

Essential Leadership Skills: Mentoring, Coaching, Sponsoring, and Feedback
Hogan defines and differentiates four key leadership skills: mentoring, coaching, sponsoring, and providing effective feedback.

Retool: Empowering Developers and Driving Business Value
David Shoe discusses Retool's ideal user, its impact on accelerating development, and its growing influence in the tech industry.

Building Your Leadership Support Network and Identifying Skill Gaps
The episode emphasizes the importance of building a diverse support network (mentors, coaches, sponsors) to address skill gaps and foster leadership growth.

Leadership as a Learned Skill and Continuous Development
The podcast refutes the idea of inherent leadership traits, promoting it as a learned skill requiring continuous learning and adaptation to evolving contexts.

Comparing Leadership Models: Linchpin vs. Cog
The conversation contrasts Seth Godin's "Linchpin" (self-reliant) and "Cog" (collaborative, servant leadership) models, advocating for the latter's emphasis on team support and organizational needs.
Keywords
Sponsorship
Actively advocating for someone's career advancement. Studies show a strong correlation with career growth.
Coaching
Asking open-ended questions to facilitate self-reflection and problem-solving.
Management vs. Leadership
A spectrum of approaches, adapting style based on context.
OCI (Open Container Initiative)
A standard for container image format and runtime. Used in Heroku's "Fur" platform.
Heroku Fur
Heroku's next-generation platform built on open standards.
Servant Leadership
Prioritizing team needs and organizational mission over self-interest.
Leadership Development
Acquiring and enhancing leadership skills and knowledge.
Support Network
A group of individuals providing various forms of support for leadership growth.
Linchpin (Leadership)
A leadership style characterized by indispensability and self-reliance.
Cog (Leadership)
A leadership style focused on serving the team and organization's needs through collaboration.
Q&A
What is the key difference between mentorship and sponsorship?
Mentorship is sharing knowledge and advice; sponsorship is actively advocating for someone's growth and opportunities.
How can managers and leaders use the empowerment/directive spectrum effectively?
By adapting their approach based on the situation and individual needs.
What are the four key leadership skills discussed?
Mentoring, coaching, sponsoring, and delivering effective feedback.
What is the significance of "what are you optimizing for?" as a coaching question?
It helps individuals clarify priorities and goals, leading to more focused actions.
What are the key components of a strong leadership support network?
Mentors, coaches, sponsors, and individuals offering diverse perspectives.
Is leadership an innate ability or a learned skill?
Primarily a learned skill, requiring continuous learning and adaptation.
What are the key differences between the "Linchpin" and "Cog" leadership models?
"Linchpin" emphasizes self-reliance; "Cog" prioritizes serving the team and organization's needs.
How can leaders adapt their approach to different contexts?
By developing a diverse toolbox of skills and strategies, adapting based on individual team members and organizational culture.
What is Heroku's "Fur"?
Heroku's next-generation platform built on open standards like OCI and Kubernetes.
How does sponsorship impact career advancement?
Studies show a strong correlation between sponsorship and career growth.
Show Notes
This week we’re bringing you a remaster of our epic 2021interview with Lara Hogan – author of Resilient Management and management coach / trainer for the tech industry.
The majority of our conversation focuses on the four primary hats leaders and managers end up wearing; mentoring, coaching, sponsoring, and delivering feedback. We also talk about knowing when you’re ready to lead, empathy and compassion, and learning to lead.
Changelog++ members save 9 minutes on this episode because they made the ads disappear. Join today!
Sponsors:
- Heroku – The Next Generation of Heroku “Fir” is coming soon — Fir is built on a foundation of cloud native technologies and open source standards, ensuring portability, interoperability, and a vibrant ecosystem for your applications. Cloud Native for everyone, for the next decade and beyond.
- Depot – Build faster. Waste less time. Accelerate Docker image builds, and GitHub Actions workflows. Easily integrate with your existing CI provider and dev workflows to save hours of build time.
- Retool – The low-code platform for developers to build internal tools — Some of the best teams out there trust Retool…Brex, Coinbase, Plaid, Doordash, LegalGenius, Amazon, Allbirds, Peloton, and so many more – the developers at these teams trust Retool as the platform to build their internal tools. Try it free at retool.com/changelog
Featuring:
- Lara Hogan – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, X
- Adam Stacoviak – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, X
- Jerod Santo – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, X
Show Notes:
- An excerpt from Resilient Management on A List Apart
- Paloma Medina
- Core Needs: BICEPS
- Lara’s book
- The Manager’s Path: A Guide for Tech Leaders Navigating Growth and Change
- Your brain on progress – Increment
- Voltron!
- I’m a cog
- The Changelog #342: From zero to thought leader in 6 months with Emma Bostian
- Lara Hogan on mentorship and sponsorship
- What does sponsorship look like?
- Linchpin from Seth Godin
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!






