Brought to you by Jira Product Discovery—Atlassian’s new prioritization and roadmapping tool built for product teams

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Oji Udezue is Chief Product Officer at Typeform and has held leadership roles at Twitter (Head of Product for Creation and Conversation), Calendly (CPO), and Atlassian (Head of Product for communication tools). He is well-known for bringing a product-led-growth (PLG) mindset to the companies he joins. Additionally, Oji mentors startups, is a Managing Partner at the Kernel Fund, and writes online about product management. In this episode, we discuss:

• Oji’s “Where to Fish to Land a Unicorn” and “Zone of Benefit” frameworks

• Why you need to find the “sharpest” problem

• How to operationalize continuous customer discovery

• Tips on optimizing onboarding flows

• Freemium vs. gated offerings in PLG

• Tactical strategies for making your product more viral

• The concept of “forest time” and how it can provide clarity in your work

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Find the transcript for this episode and all past episodes at: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/episodes/. Today’s transcript will be live by 8 a.m. PT.

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Where to find Oji Udezue:

• Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/ojiudezue

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ojiudezue/

• Substack: https://substack.com/@ojiudezue

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Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

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In this episode, we cover:

(00:00 ) Oji’s background

(03:38 ) Oji’s “Where to Fish to Land a Unicorn” framework

(05:26 ) Workflow quadrants

(09:30 ) How product people can push frequency 

(12:28 ) Oji’s “Zone of Benefit” framework

(14:49 ) How to find your ICPs

(15:33 ) ICPs at Twitter

(20:20 ) Oji’s philosophy on frameworks

(22:31 ) Oji’s upcoming book

(24:34 ) An explanation of “sharp problems”

(28:31 ) Signs your problem is “sharp enough”

(31:17 ) Discovery vs. continuous conversations

(35:08 ) Customer listening

(38:31 ) Onboarding fundamentals

(43:49 ) Activated user milestones

(45:47 ) The power of network effects

(50:15 ) An explanation of virality and how to increase it

(56:32 ) How to use “forest time” to zoom out and see problems in a new way

(1:00:53 ) Lessons from Oji’s time at Bridgewater Associates

(1:05:07 ) Why R&D teams need a larger system beyond Agile and design

(1:06:57 ) Lightning round

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Referenced:

• Where to fish to land a unicorn: https://ojiudezue.medium.com/where-to-fish-to-land-a-unicorn-in-b2b-saas-9bc93c96152c

• Coda: https://coda.io/

• Atlassian: https://www.atlassian.com/

• Finding high-frequency customers (use cases): https://ojiudezue.medium.com/finding-high-frequency-customers-use-cases-53773a753bb5

• Evernote: https://evernote.com/

• Industry PM conference: https://www.industryconference.com/

• Typeform: https://www.typeform.com/

• Build better products with continuous product discovery | Teresa Torres: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/videos/build-better-products-with-continuous-product-discovery-teresa-torres/

• Pendo: https://www.pendo.io/

• Amplitude: https://amplitude.com/

• Dan Hockenmaier on Twitter: https://twitter.com/danhockenmaier

• Seth Godin’s blog: https://seths.blog/

• A key ritual: Forest time: https://ojiudezue.substack.com/p/a-key-ritual-forest-time

• Principles: https://www.principles.com/

• Dot Collector: https://principlesus.com/dot-collector-real-time-feedback/

• The Halo Effect: . . . and the Eight Other Business Delusions That Deceive Managers: https://www.amazon.com/Halo-Effect-Business-Delusions-Managers/dp/1476784035/

• Dune: https://www.amazon.com/Dune-Penguin-Galaxy-Frank-Herbert/dp/0143111582

• Foundation: https://www.amazon.com/Foundation-3-Book-Boxed-Set-Empire/dp/0593499573

• Foundation on AppleTV+: https://tv.apple.com/us/show/foundation/umc.cmc.5983fipzqbicvrve6jdfep4x3

• Unlox: https://unlox.it/

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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

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Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

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