DiscoverWorklife with Adam GrantReThinking: Talking people out of hate with Daryl Davis and former neo-Nazi Jeff Schoep
ReThinking: Talking people out of hate with Daryl Davis and former neo-Nazi Jeff Schoep

ReThinking: Talking people out of hate with Daryl Davis and former neo-Nazi Jeff Schoep

Update: 2025-11-18
Share

Description

The Ku Klux Klan is one of the tightest-knit White supremacist groups in America—once someone joins, they’re usually in for life. But since the 1980s, over 200 members have renounced their affiliation, and all give credit to the same man: a Black jazz musician named Daryl Davis. In this episode, Adam is joined by Daryl and Jeff Schoep, a former leader of the largest neo-Nazi group in the US whose life and mind were changed by meeting and befriending Daryl. They discuss techniques for challenging ignorance and prejudice, analyze the cognitive dissonance experienced by members of extremist groups, and reflect on the conversations with Daryl that helped Jeff think again. They also explore the limits of empathy and curiosity.


Host & Guest

Adam Grant (Instagram: @adamgrant | LinkedIn: @adammgrant | Website: https://adamgrant.net/)

Daryl Davis (Instagram: @realdaryldavis | Website: https://www.daryldavis.com/

Jeff Schoep (Instagram: @jeff_schoep | Website: https://jeffschoep.com/


Links

https://beyondbarriersusa.org/


Follow TED! 

X: https://www.twitter.com/TEDTalks

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ted

Facebook: https://facebook.com/TED

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/ted-conferences

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@tedtoks 

Podcasts: https://www.ted.com/podcasts

For the full text transcript, visit ted.com/podcasts/worklife/worklife-with-adam-grant-transcripts


Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Comments 
In Channel
loading
00:00
00:00
x

0.5x

0.8x

1.0x

1.25x

1.5x

2.0x

3.0x

Sleep Timer

Off

End of Episode

5 Minutes

10 Minutes

15 Minutes

30 Minutes

45 Minutes

60 Minutes

120 Minutes

ReThinking: Talking people out of hate with Daryl Davis and former neo-Nazi Jeff Schoep

ReThinking: Talking people out of hate with Daryl Davis and former neo-Nazi Jeff Schoep