#282 CRO | Matt is joined by Haley Carpenter, founder of Chirpy, a conversion rate optimization agency. Haley has nearly a decade of CRO experience across agency, SaaS, and eCommerce, and she’s known for helping brands use research and testing to make smarter marketing decisions.

Matt and Haley cover:

• Why CRO isn’t just A/B testing, and how research should guide every optimization effort
• How to approach CRO when you don’t have massive website traffic, including scrappy testing methods and tools
• The role of messaging, value props, and social proof in driving higher conversions (and where B2B often lags behind DTC)

By the end, you’ll have a clearer picture of how to approach CRO as a system, not just a set of tests.

Timestamps

• (00:00 ) - – Intro
  


• (03:07 ) - – Who is Haley Carpenter
  


• (04:07 ) - – What CRO really means
  


• (07:07 ) - – Research vs. testing explained
  


• (11:07 ) - – Where to start CRO on a website
  


• (14:07 ) - – Testing with limited traffic
  


• (18:07 ) - – Using data for smarter decisions
  


• (21:07 ) - – Building a culture of testing
  


• (25:07 ) - – How to report CRO results
  


• (30:07 ) - – Scrappy tools: Clarity & Hotjar
  


• (35:53 ) - – What B2B can learn from DTC
  


• (39:53 ) - – Why messaging matters more than features
  


• (43:53 ) - – The power of social proof
  


• (49:53 ) - – Common blockers to CRO success
  


• (51:53 ) - – A surprising test result (+7% sales)
  


• (53:53 ) - – Vanity metrics vs. real business outcomes
  


• (57:53 ) - – Closing thoughts

Join 50,000 people who get our Exit Five Newsletter here: https://www.exitfive.com/newsletter
Learn more about Exit Five's private marketing community: https://www.exitfive.com/

***

Today’s episode is brought to you by Paramark.

It’s November. 2026 planning is already here. And the stuff you’re doing right now will decide how next year plays out. 

But here’s the problem: most teams are still planning next year's marketing strategy based on the WRONG DATA because of broken attribution and a misleading gut feel.  And you can’t make smart budget calls if you’re just guessing what’s working, what’s not, and where to put your next dollar.

That’s where Paramark comes in. They help you replace the guesswork with actual insight backed by $2 billion in analyzed marketing data. They’ve figured out what actually drives incremental growth across every channel including LinkedIn, Meta, TikTok, Google, CTV, even OOH.

And right now, they’re offering a private 1:1 consultation with their CEO and CMO, Pranav and Sam, who have led marketing teams at companies like Dropbox, Adobe, Microsoft, and Shutterfly. 

In this 45-minute strategy session, they’ll help you measure the real impact of every marketing dollar, pull insights from your current media mix, and design a 2026 roadmap that’s rooted in data, not gut.

This is a heck of an offer. And it’s real. And will go fast. So if you want to future-proof your marketing strategy for 2026, don’t miss out on this offer.

Grab your spot at paramark.com/brand-consult.

***

Thanks to my friends at hatch.fm for producing this episode and handling all of the Exit Five podcast production.

• They give you unlimited podcast editing and strategy for your B2B podcast.
• Get unlimited podcast editing and on-demand strategy for one low monthly cost. Just upload your episode, and they take care of the rest.
• Visit hatch.fm to learn more