S4 E69: Jordan Peterson, God, and Christianity with Word on Fire
This episode was recorded on September 6, 2021.
Dr. Christopher Kaczor, Dr. Matthew Petrusek, and I discuss their new book “Jordan Peterson, God, and Christianity”—the first systematic analysis of 12 Rules for Life and my biblical series from a Christian perspective. We also cover—just to name a few—truth in fiction, time before consciousness, faith, evolution, love, and acting as if God exists.
Dr. Christopher Kaczor is a Professor of Philosophy at Loyola Marymount University. He was appointed a Corresponding Member of the Pontifical Academy for Life of Vatican City, is a fellow of the Word on Fire Institute, and won a Templeton Grant for his work. He has written many scholarly articles and books.
Dr. Matthew R. Petrusek is an associate professor at Loyola Marymount University in LA. He holds an MA from Yale and a PhD from the University of Chicago. Dr. Petrusek specializes in Christian ethics and moral theology and lectures on a range of topics surrounding philosophy, theology, and Catholicism.
Find more Dr. Christopher Kaczor on Twitter @Prof_Kaczor:
And more Dr. Matthew Petrusek @MattPetrusek:
Get their book at
[00:00 ] Intro
[02:26 ] The motivation behind "Jordan Peterson, God, and Christianity"
[09:34 ] Genesis, the literal sense in scripture and the truth in fiction
[10:21 ] "The Atheist types miss that fiction isn't false" Jordan Peterson
[11:45 ] "A story that can change your life has a power that is best described as religious" JP
[12:23 ] Truth in fiction and religious text
[14:00 ] "I think truth is broader [than the empirically verifiable]"
[18:44 ] The problem with the empirical approach and replacing God
[22:07 ] "[When] Ceasar becomes inflated to God, all hell breaks loose" JP
[22:35 ] "If we don't segregate off the religious instinct and give it its proper attention, [everything] starts becoming inappropriately contaminated with religious longing. That's why you see [division and] the rise in powerful political ideologies" JP
[23:32 ] On the perversion of the religious instinct
[25:41 ] The Bible's warning in Noah and the tower of Babel
[30:43 ] Time before consciousness
[36:43 ] "Matter at the quantum level makes it difficult to think of a universe without conscious observers" JP
[40:45 ] Are science and religion at odds?
[44:00 ] Dr. Petrusek on science/religion
[46:31 ] On Faith
[54:52 ] Imitating the spirit of the Father
[54:56 ] "You can conceptualize Christ as the representation of all things admirable." JP
[57:53 ] "Faith is the willingness to act that out in the world" JP
[01:00:27 ] Why we must strive to be good
[01:01:12 ] "I am loved and I wish to love, and I recognize that I will fail time and time again" Matthew Petrusek
[01:05:26 ] Evolution and religion
[01:11:09 ] The creation of the universe
[01:11:36 ] The church and Dr. Peterson's popularity
[01:15:41 ] "Faith cannot oppose reason" MP
[01:16:48 ] The challenge of drawing younger people to church
[01:33:31 ] Acting as if God exists
[01:36:37 ] "Your life isn’t about you and your own thoughts" MP
[01:39 ::46] "When people fall in love with one another, they see the perfection that could conceivably exist. It's like the curtains of illusion pull apart momentarily, and you see the paradisal state that could be there" JP
[01:40:10 ] God's love and the love between a parent and a child
[01:43:07 ] How to treat those we love
[01:43:29 ] "The more love you view other people with, the higher the moral demand that’s placed on you" JP
[01:44:25 ] “I think there’s too much moral authority in the church" JP
[01:43:39 ] The ten commandments; the moral load of sin
[01:49:25 ] Understanding hell
[01:55:22 ] More on Word on Fire
[01:58:04 ] The Exodus lectures
#Christianity #Evolution #Meaning #God #Faith
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Would love to see a discussion with some reformed apologists and theologians. Doug Wilson, James White, Scott Oliphint. etc