The Interview: Why Nothing Works In America - Marc Dunkelman On How Democrats Lost The Ability To Do Things
Digest
This podcast features Mark Dunkelman discussing his book, "Why Nothing Works," which analyzes the systemic failures in American governance. Dunkelman uses the dilapidated state of Penn Station as a metaphor for broader issues, contrasting Robert Moses's efficient, albeit controversial, approach to infrastructure with current inefficiencies. He argues that the Democratic Party's shift from Hamiltonian centralized power to Jeffersonian decentralization, while well-intentioned, has created a system prone to gridlock. The concept of "vitocracy," where excessive veto power paralyzes decision-making, is explored through the example of the Build Back Better initiative's failures. The discussion also examines the bipartisan nature of the problem, highlighting Republicans' aversion to government and the unintended consequences of NEPA. Dunkelman analyzes Donald Trump's appeal, focusing on his ability to bypass bureaucracy, and suggests Democrats need to reform their approach to governance, prioritizing efficient decision-making while ensuring accountability and public input, and listening to working-class voters. The podcast concludes by outlining potential practical solutions for Democrats to improve their effectiveness.
Outlines

Understanding Political Gridlock and the Democratic Party's Challenges
Introduction to Mark Dunkelman and his book "Why Nothing Works," exploring the challenges faced by Democrats in regaining voter trust and the relevance of the book to the current political climate. This includes discussion of the book's origins and the metaphor of Penn Station's decline.

The Democratic Party's Aversion to Power and Inefficient Governance
Dunkelman argues that the Democratic Party's shift from Hamiltonian to Jeffersonian principles has led to governmental inefficiency. This section explores the concept of "vitocracy" and its impact on projects like Build Back Better.

Bipartisan Gridlock and Regulatory Hurdles
The discussion expands to include the role of Republicans in creating gridlock and examines the unintended consequences of well-intentioned legislation like NEPA.

Learning from Trump and Finding Solutions for Democrats
Analysis of Donald Trump's appeal and the need for Democrats to reform their approach to governance, focusing on efficient decision-making, accountability, and public input, while addressing working-class concerns. Potential practical solutions are discussed.
Keywords
Hamiltonianism
A political philosophy emphasizing strong central government and national unity.
Jeffersonianism
A political philosophy emphasizing limited government, states' rights, and individual liberties.
Vitocracy
A system of governance paralyzed by veto power, leading to inaction.
NEPA (National Environmental Policy Act)
US environmental law contributing to regulatory hurdles and project delays.
Build Back Better
Biden administration's legislative proposal highlighting challenges of large-scale government projects.
Robert Moses
A powerful urban planner known for ambitious infrastructure projects.
Political Gridlock
The state of political stalemate and inaction.
Efficient Governance
The effective and streamlined operation of government.
Q&A
How has the Democratic Party's approach to governance contributed to current political gridlock?
The shift from Hamiltonian to Jeffersonian principles has created an overly complex and inefficient system.
What is "vitocracy," and how does it affect American politics?
Vitocracy is a system where excessive veto power prevents effective decision-making, leading to inaction on projects.
What role has NEPA played in creating bureaucratic obstacles?
While well-intentioned, NEPA's requirements have become a significant source of delays and increased costs for infrastructure projects.
What can Democrats learn from Donald Trump's approach to governance?
Democrats can learn from Trump's ability to make swift decisions but should avoid his authoritarian tendencies, focusing instead on efficient processes that balance speed and accountability.
What practical steps can Democrats take to improve their effectiveness?
Democrats need to reform permitting processes, streamline regulations, and create more efficient decision-making mechanisms while addressing working-class concerns.
Show Notes
With Republicans in power across all branches of the federal government, Democrats are looking for ways to regain trust and learn how to build things. One book they’re looking toward is Marc Dunkelman’s: Why Nothing Works: Who Killed Progress―and How to Bring It Back.
In this episode, Marc joins Mosheh to discuss how the Democratic distrust of power since the 1960s has led to stagnation and public distrust, paving the way for Donald Trump’s election as someone who promises to make things actually happen. He explains how we got from the era of Robert Moses reshaping New York and FDR’s New Deal, to a modern day with infrastructure in disrepair nationwide.
Plus, some broader historical context: how the dueling mindsets at the heart of progressivism—a need for strong executive action and a mistrust of power— reflects a broader American conflict that goes all the way back to the days of Thomas Jefferson and Alexander Hamilton.
Mosheh Oinounou (@mosheh) is an Emmy and Murrow award-winning journalist. He has 20 years of experience at networks including Fox News, Bloomberg Television and CBS News, where he was the executive producer of the CBS Evening News and launched the network's 24 hour news channel. He founded the @mosheh Instagram news account in 2020 and the Mo News podcast and newsletter in 2022.



