Today on Moment of Zen, we're sharing a conversation from the 2024 Hill and Valley Forum with the founders of Scale AI, Anthropic, and AI Fund on the urgent race between the U.S. and China in AI innovation.

Moderated by Senator Cory Booker and featuring Alexandr Wang, Jack Clark, and Andrew Eng, the panel covers why American AI leadership is at risk, and how smarter policy and faster deployment are critical to maintaining a competitive edge. (Note: that this conversation took place before the DeepSeek breakthrough.)

Keep an eye out for the 2025 Hill and Valley Forum on Wednesday, April 30 — and subscribe to the Hill & Valley podcast in the episode description to listen to every panel.

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/39s4MCyt1pOTQ8FjOAS4mi

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-hill-valley/id1692653857

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@HillValleyForum

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HIGHLIGHTS OF THE DISCUSSION:

US-China AI competition:

• The panelists strongly disagree with the Rand Corporation's assessment that China won't produce major AI advances


• Jack Clark emphasized that underestimating China's creativity would be "chronically stupid"


• Alex Wang noted Chinese companies have built some of the best open-source AI models in the world
  

Regulation approach:

• The panelists generally advocated for minimal regulation that doesn't stifle innovation


• Andrew Ng compared AI to electricity (not a "dual-use" but "multi-use" technology) that shouldn't be over-regulated


• The panel suggested regulating specific applications rather than the foundational technology
  

National security concerns:

• Alex Wang expressed that the US Department of Defense is using AI too slowly compared to adversaries


• The panelists identified bureaucracy as a major obstacle to the US military adopting AI quickly enough


• They described a "triple whammy" situation: rapidly advancing technology, increasing global conflicts, and risk-seeking leadership in rival nations
  

Infrastructure needs:

• Jack Clark advocated for US investment in computing infrastructure to maintain leadership


• He mentioned permit reform as surprisingly crucial for AI advancement to build data centers


• The panel discussed the need for the US to compete with Middle Eastern countries' massive AI investments
  

Future vision (2055):

• Jack Clark: Everyone will have customized education and tutoring


• Alex Wang: Scientific breakthroughs will make sci-fi futures a reality


• Andrew Ng: Intelligence will become cheap and accessible to everyone, not just the wealthy