Digest

This podcast episode features an interview with Britt Hartley, author of "No Nonsense Spirituality," who shares her personal journey from Mormonism to atheism and her approach to secular spirituality. The conversation delves into various aspects of deconstruction, including the unique challenges women face in leaving patriarchal religions, the difficulties of secular parenting, and the impact of evolution on faith. Britt emphasizes the importance of truth seeking, critical thinking, and finding meaning and purpose outside of traditional religious frameworks. She discusses the role of myths in spiritual practice, the limitations of religious frameworks in the modern world, and the potential for secular spirituality to provide a more sustainable approach to addressing existential fears. The episode also addresses accusations of cognitive bias and financial gain, clarifying Britt's motivations and emphasizing her genuine desire to help others navigate the challenges of deconstruction and find their own path to meaning and purpose.

Outlines

00:01:28

Britt Hartley on No Nonsense Spirituality

Rhett interviews Britt Hartley, author of "No Nonsense Spirituality," about her journey from Mormonism to atheism and her approach to secular spirituality. They discuss the deep end of the pool analogy, the importance of truth seeking, and the role of myths in spiritual practice.

00:03:51

Britt's Background and Deconstruction

Britt shares her upbringing in Mormonism, her early questioning of the religion, and her eventual deconstruction. She describes her experience in theology school and how she came to see religion as a human project.

00:06:13

Morality and the Fear of Meaninglessness

Britt and Rhett discuss the role of religion in addressing existential fears, particularly the fear of meaninglessness. They explore the limitations of religious frameworks in the modern world and the potential for secular spirituality to provide a more sustainable approach.

01:10:18

Deconstruction for Women and Secular Parenting

Britt discusses the unique challenges women face in deconstructing patriarchal religions. She highlights the need for women to reclaim their voices, center themselves, and finish their human development. The segment also explores the difficulties of raising children in a secular environment, particularly in comparison to religious upbringing. The speaker highlights the lack of established rituals, traditions, and community support that religion provides.

01:42:53

Religious Imagery and Children's Perception

The speaker shares an experience where her daughter, raised secularly, found a picture of Jesus on the cross disturbing due to its graphic nature. This highlights the difference in how children raised in and out of religion perceive religious imagery.

01:44:10

Exploring Religious Themes in Creative Work

The speaker discusses their work on a podcast, "Wonder Hole," and how they are exploring religious themes in a creative and thought-provoking way. They mention rewriting a hymn with a secular twist, highlighting the different perspectives on religious concepts.

01:45:28

The Difficulty of Skepticism Within One's Own Belief System

The speaker discusses the human tendency to be less critical of beliefs that benefit us. They use the example of Mormonism and how it's easier to see superstition in other religions while overlooking it in one's own.

01:46:32

The Challenges of Secular Parenting and Authority

The speaker reflects on the challenges of parenting without relying on religious authority. They discuss the need for reason and open communication with children, contrasting it with the ease of relying on religious teachings.

01:47:10

The Impact of Religious Deconstruction on Parenting

The speaker shares their experience with their son's suspension from school and how it triggered doubts about their parenting style. They question whether their secular upbringing is lacking in structure and order, reflecting on the influence of their religious past.

01:49:08

The Benefits of Deconstruction for Children

The speaker discusses the positive impact of their deconstruction on their children. They believe that by deconstructing their own beliefs, they are preventing their children from having to do the same later on, fostering open communication and critical thinking.

01:50:10

The Impact of Evolution on Faith Deconstruction

The speaker shares how their understanding of evolution was a pivotal moment in their deconstruction process. They discuss the difficulty of reconciling evolution with a literal interpretation of the Bible and how it led to a domino effect of questioning other beliefs.

01:56:46

The Role of Suffering in Religious Belief

The speaker discusses the concept of suffering in the context of religious belief. They question the justification of suffering, both human and animal, in light of a benevolent God, ultimately concluding that the idea of a God who allows such suffering is incompatible with their own moral compass.

01:58:37

The Continued Search for Truth and Meaning

The speaker reflects on their journey of deconstruction and how it has led them to a deeper understanding of human nature and the search for meaning. They discuss the ongoing process of questioning and seeking truth, even after leaving their religious beliefs behind.

02:00:42

Addressing Accusations of Cognitive Bias and Financial Gain

The speaker addresses accusations of cognitive bias and financial gain in their work. They argue that their motivations are rooted in a genuine search for truth and meaning, not in seeking wealth or fame.

02:01:50

The Misunderstanding of Deconstruction and its Timing

The speaker clarifies the timing of their deconstruction process, emphasizing that it began before they moved to California. They address the common misconception that their move to Los Angeles was the catalyst for their loss of faith.

02:02:40

The Pain of Misunderstanding and Questioned Motives

The speaker discusses the emotional impact of being misunderstood and having their motives questioned. They acknowledge the hurt caused by accusations of laziness and selfishness, particularly from loved ones.

02:04:05

The Difficulty of Discussing Deconstruction Honestly

The speaker reflects on the challenges of discussing deconstruction openly and honestly. They believe that the true reasons for deconstruction, such as questioning foundational truths, are often dismissed or attributed to other factors.

02:06:27

The Financial Incentive of Returning to Religion

The speaker humorously addresses the accusation that they could make more money by returning to religion. They point out the potential for financial gain in religious-based ventures, but emphasize that their current work is driven by a desire to help others, not by financial incentives.

02:07:33

Compassion and Understanding in the Face of Resistance

The speaker discusses the importance of compassion and understanding when dealing with resistance to deconstruction. They use the analogy of a child's behavior to illustrate how understanding the underlying reasons for resistance can lead to empathy and connection.

02:09:20

The Future of Non-Religious Spirituality

The speaker discusses their future plans for their work in non-religious spirituality. They are currently writing a book on existential crisis and plan to focus on coaching spiritual directors, aiming to provide support and guidance for those seeking meaning outside of traditional religion.

Keywords

Q&A

• What is the deep end of the pool analogy and how does it relate to your work?

  The deep end of the pool analogy represents the level of depth people go into exploring various subjects, including spirituality. Britt sees herself as someone who stays in the middle, asking questions of those in the deep end and relaying them to those in the shallow end.

• How did your experience in theology school contribute to your deconstruction?

  Britt's studies in theology led her to question the nature of God and the role of human psychology in shaping religious beliefs. She came to see religion as a human project, rather than a divine revelation.

• What are the four existential fears that Irvin Yalom identifies and how does religion address them?

  Yalom's four existential fears are death, freedom, loneliness, and meaninglessness. Religion often provides comforting narratives and rituals to address these fears, but Britt argues that secular spirituality can offer more sustainable solutions.

• How does the deconstruction process differ for women?

  Women often face unique challenges in deconstructing patriarchal religions, as they may have had to sacrifice their own identities and aspirations to fulfill traditional gender roles. They may need to reclaim their voices, center themselves, and finish their human development.

• What advice would you give to someone who wants to have a meaningful spiritual experience but doesn't want to subscribe to religious dogma?

  Britt encourages individuals to explore secular spirituality, emphasizing that it's okay to create their own spiritual path based on personal experience and values. She acknowledges that this may require more work and intentionality, but ultimately leads to a more authentic and fulfilling experience.

• How did your understanding of evolution impact your deconstruction process?

  The realization that evolution was a scientifically valid explanation for the origin of life challenged my literal interpretation of the Bible, leading to a domino effect of questioning other beliefs and ultimately causing a shift in my worldview.

• What are your thoughts on the role of suffering in religious belief?

  The idea of a benevolent God allowing billions of years of animal suffering and hundreds of thousands of years of human suffering before revealing himself seemed morally unacceptable to me. It made no sense to justify such suffering for the sake of a specific religious truth.

• How do you address accusations of cognitive bias and financial gain in your work?

  I believe my motivations are rooted in a genuine search for truth and meaning, not in seeking wealth or fame. I am driven by a desire to help others navigate the challenges of deconstruction and find their own path to meaning and purpose.

• What are your future plans for your work in non-religious spirituality?

  I am currently writing a book on existential crisis and plan to focus on coaching spiritual directors, aiming to provide support and guidance for those seeking meaning outside of traditional religion. I believe there is a growing need for this kind of support and guidance, particularly for those who have deconstructed their religious beliefs.

Show Notes