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Quick summary: Our program explored lunar exploration and habitation concepts, focusing on lava tubes and the challenges of robotic mapping and structural analysis. The discussion concluded with conversations about lunar transportation, power requirements, and the importance of maintaining public interest in space exploration, while also touching on the role of AI in education and research.

David and John Jossy discussed personal matters, including John’s upcoming meeting with his son and David’s struggles with overeating. They briefly touched on political topics, such as the upcoming New Jersey governor’s race and concerns about New York City’s direction. Haym joined later and shared his focus on lunar lava tubes, including their structure and potential for habitation, but noted he hadn’t made any new progress on habitats recently. Space Show Zoom participants included Dr. Charles Lurio, John Hunt, John Jossy, Marshall Martin, Dr. Ajay Kothari, and Joe Pistritto.

I announced upcoming guests for the space show, including Sam Ximenes who is the founder and CEO of Astroport Space, Mike Gruntman, and Homer Hickam for the next Hotel Mars program. I also discussed progress on getting podcasts back on various platforms and the challenges of accepting donations through Substack due to our nonprofit status. Dr. Haym Benaroya, a mechanical engineering professor at Rutgers University, was introduced as the guest for the day, having previously appeared on the show and authored books on lunar exploration.

Haym reported strong student interest in space and lunar engineering at Rutgers, with many students pursuing independent research projects and finding placement at companies like SpaceX, Blue Origin, and NASA. He teaches both undergraduate and graduate courses in spacecraft and mission design, and while he hasn’t pursued commercial work himself, he is interested in studying lunar lava tubes as a logical progression from his previous lunar habitat research. His current research focuses on the structural stability of lava tubes, particularly examining the trade-offs between pressurized and unpressurized tubes, which serves as a valuable training ground for students.

Our Zoom Space Show participants in this program, along with Dr. Benaroya, discussed lunar habitat options, with Haym explaining that lava tubes would be more suitable for third-generation habitats due to access and infrastructure challenges. Haym suggested that initial lunar structures would likely be cylindrical pressure vessels or inflatable modules that could be pre-constructed and shielded with regolith, with 3D printing as a future possibility once energy and robotic capabilities improve. Marshall raised the need for an exploratory rover to map lava tubes, with Haym confirming that some students have developed small-scale models with LiDAR equipment for this purpose.

The group discussed the exploration and potential habitation of lunar lava tubes, emphasizing the need for robotic technology to assess their structural stability and safety. Haym and others highlighted the challenges of robotics on the Moon due to factors like regolith and radiation, suggesting a high reliance on robotics but acknowledging their complexity. Marshall mentioned the use of seismic technology to map lava tubes, while Joe referenced a presentation on a tethered rover concept for exploration. The conversation also touched on the balance between human and robotic efforts in preparing lava tubes for habitation, with Haym suggesting a significant robotic presence. David asked about the feasibility of similar efforts on Mars, and Haym noted that while gravity might differ, many challenges would remain similar.

We continued talking about the potential for lava tubes on the Moon and their possible water content, with Haym noting that while water could theoretically accumulate in tubes, it would be a longer process than in permanently shadowed regions. They explored the temperature conditions in lava tubes, with Haym citing a source that suggested temperatures around 63 degrees Fahrenheit, though the accuracy of this measurement in a vacuum environment was questioned. The conversation then shifted to the need for lunar landing pads, with David raising the question of current technological readiness and the necessary robotic construction methods, emphasizing the need for structural analysis and material selection.

We did focus on the challenges and potential solutions for lunar landing pads, including their structural stability and regolith displacement. Haym highlighted concerns about the instability of tall rockets landing on the moon and proposed two classes of landing sites: sintering the surface or using ceramic-like plates. John Jossy mentioned Ethos Space’s work on a regolith compacting device, though David noted their timeline was far off into the future. The conversation also touched on the need for engineering tests and inspections for lunar infrastructure while suggesting that Sam, our upcoming Sunday guest, could provide insights on regolith-based landing pads. The discussion concluded with a consensus that energy, particularly fission energy, would be crucial for mapping lava tubes and other lunar activities.

We continued with a discussion of power requirements for lunar and Martian bases, while noting that the current proposed nuclear power is sufficient for now, future needs will require megawatt-scale power. They agreed that cables would be the simplest method to transport power to construction sites, though Marshall emphasized the uncertainty of permanent vs. temporary needs on the moon. The discussion concluded with predictions about lunar missions, with Haym and others expressing confidence that China will send a person to the moon within 5-8 years, while Joe noted uncertainty about American lunar missions in the same timeframe.

The group discussed various concepts for lunar transportation, including maglev trains and rovers, but noted that current U.S. lunar ambitions lack key components like a lander and the Gateway station, which was revived by Sen. Cruz for Artemis missions 4 and 5. They debated the status of Boeing’s Starliner and Orion programs, with Orion being considered in good shape despite some heat shield issues, while NASA is exploring alternative rocket options like Starship, New Glenn, or Falcon Heavy. The discussion concluded with David raising the importance of communicating the value of lunar missions to the general public, emphasizing the need for clear benefits that could be realized within a reasonable timeframe.

Zoom participants along with Haym talked up the benefits of lunar exploration, with Haym explaining that while students are excited by the prospect of space activities, the long-term economic benefits could include advancements in civilian technology, a lunar-based economy, and access to helium-3 for fusion reactions. Ajay noted that the excitement factor, similar to Hollywood, is important for public engagement, while Haym mentioned potential medical benefits of conducting cancer research in lunar gravity. The discussion highlighted that while immediate benefits might not be apparent, the cumulative economic and technological impacts over 50-100 years could significantly benefit society.

The group discussed the potential for mining lunar resources and the importance of maintaining public interest in space exploration. They agreed that frequent and exciting missions, such as those involving lava tubes or live broadcasts, could help generate public enthusiasm. Joe noted that the Eclipse missions might be more exciting than Artemis, while Marshall mentioned the high viewership of the Starship test flight. When asked, Haym shared how artificial intelligence is being used in his spacecraft course to help students produce polished summaries of papers, reducing their workload.

Haym discussed the integration of AI in education and research, sharing his experience with using AI tools to assist in teaching and conducting research. He highlighted the potential of AI to accelerate research processes and optimize habitat design, emphasizing the need for human oversight to guide AI’s capabilities. John Jossy brought up the work of the Purdue University’s Brazilian Extraterrestrial Habitats Institute on automating habitats and using AI for design, which Haym acknowledged as impressive. The group discussed the rapid pace of AI development and its potential to transform future technology, including its application in space missions. David asked about the path from academic theories and projects to real-world lunar missions, but the response was vague.

Haym emphasized the need for affordable lunar missions to test technologies in the actual lunar environment, highlighting the importance of both commercial and governmental efforts. He noted that while small landers have made progress, costs remain a significant challenge. Haym also discussed his previous work, including his books on space exploration and lunar habitats, and shared insights on AI in academic writing. The conversation concluded with a discussion about unidentified aerial phenomena (UAPs), where Haym expressed skepticism about the technology claims but acknowledged the possibility of extraterrestrial origins.

The conversation ended with participants expressing appreciation for the discussion and