Dave interviews someone as pessimistically optimistic as him today: Alex Stupak, chef and founder of Empellón. Dave and Alex talk about the dark arts of sandbagging (2:33 ), the end of "high/low" dining, and the history of food leading to today (6:28 ). They also discuss selling out, Alex's new social media presence, and the origin of ideas. Somehow, by the end of the podcast, these two "pessimists" end up hopeful for the future of the cooking world, even with AI imminent (1:27:49 ).

Follow Alex Stupak on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/alexstupak/ 

Learn more about Empellón: https://www.empellon.com/ 

Learn more about The Otter: https://www.theotter.nyc/ 

Learn more about Providence: https://providencela.com/ 

Learn more about Monkey Bar: https://www.nycmonkeybar.com/ 

Learn more about 4 Charles Prime Rib: https://www.nycprimerib.com/ 

Learn more about Corner Store: https://www.thecornerstoresoho.com/ 

Learn more about Alinea: https://www.alinearestaurant.com/ 

Learn more about El Bulli: https://elbullifoundation.com/en/ 

Watch A Year and a Half in the Life of Metallica: https://www.metallica.com/releases/films/a-year-and-a-half-in-the-life-of-metallica-film.html 

Watch Dinner Time Live: https://www.netflix.com/title/81748864

Learn more about Frenchette: https://www.frenchettenyc.com/ 

Learn more about Bianco: https://www.pizzeriabianco.com/los-angeles 

Check out the Tartine Bread book: https://amzn.to/3KRMoqQ 

Learn more about Spumoni Gardens: https://spumonigardens.com/ 

Learn more about Patsy's Pizzeria: https://www.patsyspizzerianyc.com/ 

Learn more about Scarr's Pizza: https://www.scarrspizza.com/ 

Learn more about Ceres Pizza: https://www.instagram.com/ceres.nyc/ 

Learn more about Apollonias: http://www.apolloniaspizzeria.com/ 

Learn more about Seiji Yamamoto: https://guide.michelin.com/en/article/people/3stars-ryugin-seiji-yamamoto-the-knife-technique 

Learn more about Atomix: https://www.atomixnyc.com/ 

Learn more about Le Veau D'or: https://www.lvdnyc.com/ 

Learn more about Stretch Pizza: https://www.stretchpizzanyc.com/ 

Learn more about Salt Hank's: https://salthanks.com/ 

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Host: Dave Chang

Guest: Alex Stupak

Majordomo Media Producer: David Meyer

Spotify Producer: Felipe Guilhermino

Engineer: Belle Roman

Editor: Stefano Sanchez

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