In this episode, Abi Noda is joined by Laura Tacho, CTO at DX, engineering leadership coach, and creator of the Core 4 framework. They explore how engineering organizations can avoid common pitfalls when adopting metrics frameworks like SPACE, DORA, and Core 4.

Laura shares a practical guide to getting started with Core 4—beginning with controllable input metrics that teams can actually influence. The conversation touches on Goodhart’s Law, why focusing too much on output metrics can lead to data distortion, and how leaders can build a culture of continuous improvement rooted in meaningful measurement.

Where to find Laura Tacho: 

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauratacho/

• Website: https://lauratacho.com/

Where to find Abi Noda:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/abinoda 

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00 ) Intro: Improving systems, not distorting data

(02:20 ) Goal setting with the new Core 4 framework

(08:01 ) A quick primer on Goodhart’s law

(10:02 ) Input vs. output metrics—and why targeting outputs is problematic

(13:38 ) A health analogy demonstrating input vs. output

(17:03 ) A look at how the key input metrics in Core 4 drive output metrics 

(24:08 ) How to counteract gamification 

(28:24 ) How to get developer buy-in

(30:48 ) The number of metrics to focus on 

(32:44 ) Helping leadership and teams connect the dots to how input goals drive output

(35:20 ) Demonstrating business impact 

(38:10 ) Best practices for goal setting

Referenced:

• DX Core 4 Productivity Framework
• Engineering Enablement Podcast
• DORA’s software delivery metrics: the four keys
• The SPACE of Developer Productivity: There’s more to it than you think
• DevEx: What Actually Drives Productivity
• DORA, SPACE, and DevEx: Which framework should you use?
• Goodhart's law 
• Nicole Forsgren - Microsoft | LinkedIn
• Campbell's law 
• Introducing Core 4: The best way to measure and improve your product velocity
• DX Core 4: Framework overview, key design principles, and practical applications
• DX Core 4: 2024 benchmarks - by Abi Noda