Virginia

You’re listening to Burnt Toast! This is the podcast about diet culture, anti-fat bias parenting and health. I’m Virginia Sole-Smith.

Corinne

And I’m Corinne Fay. I work on Burnt Toast and run SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus sized clothing.

Virginia

And it’s time for your November Indulgence Gospel!

This was supposed to be your October Indulgence Gospel, but we ran September in October and now, it’s November. We are going to answer your questions like we do every month. We are going to get into a lot of really good fat fashion recs. We are going to talk about hair. And I’ve got a little divorce update at the end, if you’re curious.

This is also a paywalled episode. That means to hear the whole thing you’ll need to be a paid Burnt Toast subscriber.

Corinne

Well, I’ve been wanting to talk to you about pants.

Virginia

We’ve decided this podcast’s version of talking about the weather is pants, because there is always a lot to say about pants. So you can just know that we’re always going to talk about pants. You don’t have to panic about whether there’s going to be the pants-related content that you need in these episodes.

Corinne

Yes, and it’s somewhat weather related. But we are definitely not alone in having pants problems. 

Virginia

It’s a universal struggle of the Burnt Toast community.

Corinne

So here’s what I’m struggling with right now. It just got cold enough to start wearing pants again, so I’m pulling my pants out of my closet. All summer I’ve been wearing bike shorts. And I can’t figure out what the pants equivalent of bike shorts should be. It seems like it would be leggings, but it’s not. 

Virginia

Why is it not? They’re literally bike shorts that go down to your ankles?

Corinne

I feel like the type of shirts that I’m wearing with bike shorts are sort of fancy shirts, like a like button-up or something. And when I wear that with leggings, it just looks wrong.

Virginia

Wait, I need to stand up.

Corinne

Oh no! That’s literally what you’re wearing.

Virginia

For the listeners: I’m wearing a button-down shirt with leggings right now. Corinne, are you telling me I am wrong?

Corinne

I feel like it looks cool on you, but okay. To be discussed. 

The other thing is, I pulled out my jeans from last year and I don’t know if over the summer jean styles changed? But now my jeans that I thought seemed cool last year don’t feel cool anymore. They feel weirdly kind of too short.

Virginia

Are we finally done with bare ankles? Is the tyranny of the cropped ankle finally behind us? 

Corinne

I don’t know. I don’t want to do flares or JNCOs or low-rise.

Virginia

No, I’m unavailable for all of those. I know some people have sensory issues and really hate high-rise but I have the opposite sensory issue and really hate low-rise. And flares, I don’t need to relive my trauma. That was a dark time for Elder Millennials. 

Corinne

Growing up in New England, no.

Virginia

Slush just dragging around all of the pavement with you, everywhere you went.

So I am wearing last year’s jeans as well. 

Corinne

Your Gap ones.

Virginia

The Gap ones. I did also pull out my Madewell skinny jeans. I’m a basic bitch, I don’t know what to tell you, I’m still wearing skinny jeans. They still fit me. They’re like leggings but they’re not as comfortable as leggings. But sometimes it seems fine.

I do find myself wishing there was a category of jeans between the skinny jeans and straight leg jeans. Like straight but also not skin-tight.

Corinne

Like a tapered but baggy?

Virginia

That’s sounding wrong. I don’t think I want to taper exactly?

I think what happens with plus size jeans is they often continue to cut the leg wide which makes sense for lots of folks plus sized bodies but doesn’t make sense for my plus sized body. I remember

Dacy Gillespie

bought the same pair of Gap straight leg jeans that I have, and because she is straight-sized they are just two entirely different pants. Mine are much baggier than hers. So I would like a jean that’s like a little narrower than a straight leg, but fits like a wide leg.

Corinne

Well, that’s what I mean by tapered.

Virginia

I guess that’s what I want. 

Corinne

I really want a pair of corduroy pants. 

Virginia

Ooh, that sounds fun.

Corinne

But it feels like all the plus size ones aren’t quite what I’m looking for. They look like corduroy pants that I wore in the 2000s. Or they are elastic waist, like toddler pants. I want something that’s a little more like trousers, but corduroy.

Virginia

You’re not in the market for a corduroy jogger? I guess that would be a toddler vibe. I have not seen any good corduroy pants. Hopefully people will put that in the comments. Because I’m also interested. I did try the Gap ones last year and they were really bad.

Corinne

I found one good pair at Target. But they’re sold out in my size, so I ordered every adjacent size to try to see. They’re also only in white or pink, which feels like a lot.

Virginia

We need to get back to this legging shirt conundrum because I’m wondering if the issue is that with a bike short, you would wear a slightly shorter shirt than you would want to wear with a legging? I don’t think that I would wear this button down shirt with my bike shorts. Because if the shirt is too long with bike shorts, does it look like I forgot pants? Does it look like I’m wearing a too short dress and I meant to put something underneath and I forgot?

Corinne

I like that look though. 

Virginia

Well, I’m not here to style shame you. If that’s your look, that’s great. But I feel like one of my children would be like, “Where are your pants?” I would feel shamed by them and their superior style. But with leggings, I wear a slightly longer shirt.

Corinne

Maybe also going to the gym so much, I now feel weird wearing leggings out in the world.

Virginia

They’re just such a workout vibe for you right now.

I’ve been living in this. I’m wearing a chambray button down shirt from Universal Standard [no link, sorry folks, it vanished!] that I have been wearing with all of my leggings and my Veja sneakers. I mean, it is very Suburban Mom. I’m not saying it’s not. I feel like the fact that the sneakers are a cool brand helps a little. And I’ve got a bright pink sports bra on underneath, so that’s kind of fun.

But on Friday, I was going to dinner my cousin’s and I was texting my sister, like, “I’m having hard time deciding what to wear.” I was exactly what I’m wearing right now. Leggings, sneakers, button down shirt. And I was like, “But should I dress it up for dinner?” Sometimes I don’t know how dressed up I need to be to go eat dinner in someones house. We’re not going to a restaurant. So we were texting, and then I ended up switching and I sent her a picture because I switched to black leggings and a linen button down shirt. And I was like, it’s the same outfit, but it’s different colors. 

Corinne

So much fancier. 

Virginia

The dressy leggings and shirt combo. Maybe my new uniform? I don’t know.

Corinne

I mean, it’s a good uniform.

Virginia

I am who I am. I’m here drinking my tea in my East Fork mug and my chambray shirt. I’m a coastal grandma just trying to get through the day and it is what it is.

But I do hear you, I feel like it’s like the fanciness of the button down shirt. It does need to be a casual shirt with leggings.

Corinne

Yeah. And you have to like, get the proportions right. I don’t know. I’m going to have to experiment. Also, are you wearing socks with your sneakers, if you’re wearing leggings?

Virginia

Not yet, because it hasn’t cooled enough here. Probably once it’s cold enough to require socks I will switch to ankle boots with my leggings.

Corinne

Okay. Because I feel like sometimes the sneakers, sock